alma Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Do we need a PCC forum now? I took my SIG MPX to the range today. I think I am just about ready for PCC. This could be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 223 and 300 blackout wont make minor, so if you are wanting to run those calibers in a pistol format it would be for no score. And I believe there is a rule about damaging steel targets, but not sure. PCC does sound fun though. PCC Pistol Caliber Carbine I believe the intent would be 9mm 40 45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Gotcha Chills, (and Sarge too), I was replying more about the picture with the AR based pistol in a holster, and basically thread drifting :-) Back on topic, I like the idea of a PCC division, but would hope if it happens it will stay with normal pistol calibers so shooting steel would be feasible in smaller bays. Now the question is do we need open and limited or just run what you brung? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddKS Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Run what you brung. Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 And what about power factor? All minor, all major, or minor/major? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 And what about power factor? All minor, all major, or minor/major? I vote for all minor. It makes the logistics of getting a competitive gun and load so much easier. Most will be chambered in 9mm and many will be SBR. It's easy to be very accurate with them at speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I am in agreement, run what you brung and all minor, is what I was thinking as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 We let people shoot PCC in their own division at the local 3Gun matches. First time I tried it I shot Tactical and was 2nd overall, 96% of the match winner. Shot it with the PCC and I was in 1st overall and 2nd was at 72%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I've had dedicated 9mm AR guns, not the glock mag based ones, and I loved them. A little finicky at times but oooh so fun to shoot in the local steel matches whose stages are basically USPSA stages. Only problem I see is now I'd want to shoot two division every match. Could you imagine your current match with 12 people wanting to shoot both Open and Prod, switching gear and guns, every match? How badly would that stress you system? And of course there is the great capacity debate. Here in CA it's 10. Other states it that or 15. We have the dumb bullet button here as well. All this can be overcome but it might be a painful process at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I've had dedicated 9mm AR guns, not the glock mag based ones, and I loved them. A little finicky at times but oooh so fun to shoot in the local steel matches whose stages are basically USPSA stages. Only problem I see is now I'd want to shoot two division every match. Could you imagine your current match with 12 people wanting to shoot both Open and Prod, switching gear and guns, every match? How badly would that stress you system? And of course there is the great capacity debate. Here in CA it's 10. Other states it that or 15. We have the dumb bullet button here as well. All this can be overcome but it might be a painful process at first. Think the entire proposal of PCC would be better served by running specific PCC matches. Or possibly running PCC guns after a main match. This would depend on the amount of interest in the local area probably. But you're right, in most well attended matches there is no way to let shooters shoot multiple divisions. As for capacity and other law restrictions, couldn't it work just like other divisions do now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 And what about power factor? All minor, all major, or minor/major?I vote for all minor. It makes the logistics of getting a competitive gun and load so much easier. Most will be chambered in 9mm and many will be SBR. It's easy to be very accurate with them at speed. I'm not so sure many would be SBR's. Maybe someday at the top levels? But most are not going to go to the cost and hassle of NFA just to shoot USPSA. I also don't think the ticket is a full out tactical Timmy gun with all kinds of stuff hanging off of it. I'm betting a more minimalist approach would be the way to go. Long light hand guard and a small optic or irons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I'm ready to play this game....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Yeah the thread was about pcc I figured AR type gun in Uspsa was close enough to bring up Running just a buffer tube or sig brace no stock.I would think Handguard should be legal unless it has a foregrip on it. If I were RM for the match, hand guard would likely make it a no go situation...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 And what about power factor? All minor, all major, or minor/major?I vote for all minor. It makes the logistics of getting a competitive gun and load so much easier. Most will be chambered in 9mm and many will be SBR. It's easy to be very accurate with them at speed. I'm not so sure many would be SBR's. Maybe someday at the top levels? But most are not going to go to the cost and hassle of NFA just to shoot USPSA. I also don't think the ticket is a full out tactical Timmy gun with all kinds of stuff hanging off of it. I'm betting a more minimalist approach would be the way to go. Long light hand guard and a small optic or irons. A lot of people already have sbr's in 9mm. Traveling interstate with them would be a pain though. You have to get permission from atf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 What's stopping someone from using a pcc in Uspsa open currently?The rules. Killjoy .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I think PCC Division has great potential if we are truly interested in growing the sport. And, I second others in that it should remain limited to traditional "pistol" calibers (between a minimum and maximum diameter and with a min bullet weight and possibly a max PF). And yes, it would be a "run what you brung" division. I dont think that irons versus optics would be a huge differenxe anyway, and there are plenty of cheap dota out there if someone feels they have to have one to be competitive. No artificial mag capacity restrictions. No holsters for Division. Table or "low-ready" starts. MD's could decide whether to run the division concurrent with pistol match or separately. Huge potential to grow participation from folk who don't care for pistol matches or the shotgun portion of multigun matches. And, here's another JP plug... The JP GMR will be awesome for this game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 In regard to post #17, I wasn't aware "fore grips" were illegal. Does this mean my AUG was illegal and I didn't know it ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechnology Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I had some time on a Sig MPX yesterday at the range shooting various sized steel plates; this gun would be a great option for steel challenge or USPSA type matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 In regard to post #17, I wasn't aware "fore grips" were illegal. Does this mean my AUG was illegal and I didn't know it ??? They are illegal on "pistol." if you want to run one then you need to be formally SBRed or have a 16"+ barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I had some time on a Sig MPX yesterday at the range shooting various sized steel plates; this gun would be a great option for steel challenge or USPSA type matches. I broke my MPX out briefly after we finished setup for tomorrow's USPSA match. This would definitely be fun shooting at a USPSA style stage. USPSA has am important opportunity with PPC. It potentially missed an opportunity with 3 Gun, but no one that is know of is doing PPC matches on any significant scale. There is room for USPSA to step in if it can be reasonable with the rules on things like scoring and weapons handling off of the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I had some time on a Sig MPX yesterday at the range shooting various sized steel plates; this gun would be a great option for steel challenge or USPSA type matches. I broke my MPX out briefly after we finished setup for tomorrow's USPSA match. This would definitely be fun shooting at a USPSA style stage. USPSA has am important opportunity with PPC. It potentially missed an opportunity with 3 Gun, but no one that is know of is doing PPC matches on any significant scale. There is room for USPSA to step in if it can be reasonable with the rules on things like scoring and weapons handling off of the line. I should think either low ready or on a table/barrel type starts. Seems like a serious winner. Typically any type of new division ideas or shot down pretty quickly around here, but this one seems to have legs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandabooks Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 A PPC is at the top of my next gun list. Probably right after the 1st of the year. I'm leaning toward just going with the JP in 9mm. I've got a Hi-Point in .45 that I picked up when I had $300 burning a hole in my pocket and I walked into my LGS a couple months ago. Gun has run flawlessly for the 1st thousand rounds. Problem is poor ergonomics, crappy trigger and nothing bigger than 9rd mags. We had a truck match in Nov and some of the guys brought out 9mm ARs to shoot with and they did really well with them. Virtually no recoil and cheaper to load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) NO MAG CAPACITY LIMITS Edited December 13, 2015 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) I have thought that a PCC division in USPSA would be very fun since I first started shooting it five years ago. Let me preface this post with the statement that I feel like PCC would definitely grow the sport. USPSA has grown my love of shooting pistols as I like the challenge that it has over shooting rifles/carbines. Pistols are inherently not as accurate as rifles and it takes a lot of skill and discipline to shoot pistols well. If a PCC division were to happen, would it start influencing stage design in a way that would take away from the current flavor of pistol stages? Would we see much tighter shots? Would we start seeing more targets out to 50 yards? You already see this happen at many club level matches where some stages are very biased towards Open shooters. Would stage designers that are shooting PCC bias stages toward the speed and accuracy of a carbine? I think it's only natural that it would happen. Edited December 13, 2015 by d_striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 (edited) Stages are biased towards fast close shooting now, but they used to have stages that stressed accuracy. I remember shooting 50 and 80 yard standards stages back when there were just 2 divisions. Edited December 13, 2015 by MarkCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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