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Everything posted by StealthyBlagga

  1. I don't want to derail Kelly and Kurt's trip down memory lane, buuuut... be advised that the 3" long x 1" diameter rule assumes a simple cylindrical muzzle device. If you have a funky asymmetric muzzle device that you think meets the criteria, you might want to check with the RM first to avoid disappointment. When we were faced with an unusual brake design at SMM3G, we clarified that the device must fit inside a right cylinder of 3" length and 1" internal diameter. The RM found a convenient gage (probably a choke tube package or something) to quickly make the assessment.
  2. Pretty much the same issues as UML (barely coherent rules structure, coach-and-horses gaps, an even more silly paper target etc.), plus penalty times so small I could stay in bed, eat the penalties and still place in the top half.
  3. Can we have a separate thread about 3GN rules? My list of peeves would be WAAAAY longer. Hopefully they are gone for good.
  4. OK, sounds reasonable... how often do you hear that here
  5. Hmmmm. Is this a formal published ruling or an ad hoc opinion given by Troy that you can point me to? In the absence of something in writing from a higher authority, when I'm the RO I'm going to expect a belt to be securely fixed (e.g. through loops, sewn to the pants etc.) as opposed to simply being "tight" (which is a subjective term that does not seem to satisfy the plain language of the rule)... the OP should consider this before he makes the equipment decision he is asking about.
  6. I don't know about any earlier discussion. The applicable rule is: 5.2.3 Unless specified in the written stage briefing, the belt carrying the holster and allied equipment must be worn during the course of fire; the belt must be worn at the waist level, which is deemed to be at the same level as the original belt loops on the lower garment. (See for exceptions.) The belt or the inner belt or both must be either securely fixed at the waist or secured with a minimum of three belt loops. The belt may be removed between courses of fire. Simply wearing the outer belt without anything passing through belt loops does not seem to meet this standard. Of course, this is just my plain language reading... no doubt there is a Troy Facebook Ruling that I am unaware of
  7. THIS. I have several GLS, ALS and thumb-drive holsters, and GLS is my go-to. Its design even allows you to cut down the front a little for a cleaner draw.
  8. IMHO the Glock mag insertion angle is optimal for USPSA classifier speed reloads. It looks like ass, but for our game it works well. Pointy double-stack/single-feed format, solid construction and low price are the icing on the cake. I am not seeing the advantage of the Scorpion mag.
  9. I respect what Pete is trying to do, but his rules make me cringe. The text reads like a semi-coherent rambling stream of consciousness, written as if he were explaining it to someone in a casual conversation. Experienced 3-gunners can read between the lines and get the gist of what he is saying, but the range lawyering decried above is a symptom of the immaturity in the UML rules document. The norms of the sport, as spelled out in USPSA rules, are assumed to apply without being explicitly identified - as a result, each RM gets to decide which of those norms he likes and which he prefers to ignore. This kind of rules "flexibility" is often cited by USPSA shooters as something that turns them off from outlaw matches. I much prefer the clean, structured, well-considered, "written-by-committee" style of text epitomized by USPSA and IPSC rules. When I wrote IMA-SMM3G rules, I put great effort into knitting them together with USPSA rules as much as I could. Where differences were necessary, they were clearly identified so as to minimize the opportunity for range lawyers to get an unfair advantage. As regards the flavor of UML as a sport, I'm not a huge fan of the division rules, but I acknowledge that is totally a matter of opinion. The targets also bother me - I've never been one of those folks who think our sport would be all over network TV if it were not for those un-PC humanoid targets, so targets like the UML and 3GN designs seem like an answer to a question nobody is asking. Despite my personal peeves, it is clear from the level of adoption that a lot of folks DO like what UML is offering. I wish Pete and his crew well.
  10. Just be aware that some rules (e.g. USPSA) actually REQUIRE the belt (inner or outer) to pass through your pants belt loops. Make sure you are not in violation for the matches you plan to attend.
  11. The Stealth shotgun's biggest difference vs. Open is that only a tube mag is allowed and it must be loaded by hand - no speed loaders or box mags. While porting and optics are allowed, they are not as consequential as you might imagine - lots of folks run non ported ribbed barrels and do just fine. Stealth shotgun rules are much closer to Tac Ops than Open, but the dedicated guns have shorter barrels to match the shorter mag tube, making them much more handy and practical..
  12. Tactical/Tac Scope/Tac Optics has become a monstrosity, especially the shotguns which are ludicrous. However, being the most popular and "standard" of all the divisions, there is tremendous resistance to changing it. That's why we created Stealth... it's a sandbox to explore what Tactical Division should be. Stealth is more than just optics on a pistol (in fact, I stuck with irons in favor of more ammo). The pistol can be single-action and ported/compensated so long as it fits in the Stealth box, the rifle is essentially unrestricted except for mag capacity (max 30 rounds), and the shotgun rules specifically limit the magazine tube length so a Stealth shotgun is short and handy (as all shotgun should be) although ghost-loading at start is allowed. Stealth was designed to allow a Tactical shooter to switch divisions with almost no equipment changes and remain competitive - all that is needed is to sub in a shorter shotgun magazine tube. As for results, bear in mind that - like USPSA - high overall results are not a thing. With this said, you can see how the top Tactical and Stealth shooters compare by reviewing the results for SMM3G 2019. Bottom line is that the results are too close to call (86% vs 83%, with age likely being a bigger factor than equipment). The winner of Stealth Division ran an iron sighted pistol.
  13. All of these issues are addressed HERE . Stealth Division accommodates CO-type pistols. The rules on muzzle devices, including suppressors, are clear. Several matches across the country have adopted these rules... maybe ask your local MD to consider doing so?
  14. Note USPSA Rule 5.5.3: 5.5.3 Metal piercing, steel core, incendiary, and/or tracer ammunition, as well as ammunition loaded with steel-jacketed projectiles is prohibited at USPSA matches. Steel case ammunition is allowed, provided the projectile does not stick to a magnet. (See Rule 10.5.15) Most Wolf, Tula and similar ammo is assembled with bimetal projectiles, which are steel jacketed and thus prohibited at USPSA matches. Check the type of ammo you plan on using before you buy too much, just to confirm it is legal at the ranges and matches you want to attend.
  15. I have a long-gun case with side pockets big enough for all my magazines etc. My other gear lives in my regular pistol range bag that comes along for the ride but stays in my car.
  16. This is the crux of the matter. TV coverage by 3GN and other shooting shows showing young athletes running-and -gunning has driven a lot of the interest during the last decade, but the backbone of the sport has been older shooters who have the disposable income needed for sustained participation. As those participants drop out due to age, health, burnout and alternate interests, the sport - like any sport - needs to replenish the ranks. The PERCEPTION among a lot of younger potential new recruits is that the shotgun is an expensive, clunky, specialized and irrelevant weapon that requires an inordinate investment of $$$ and effort to master the esoteric loading aspects. A lot of us who shoot 3-gun already might take issue with that perception (see the many arguments above), but PERCEPTION IS REALITY - we, as a sport, have been unable to overcome this perception despite a lot of trying. The bulk of the growth I have seen at my matches is coming from 2-gunners. Maybe some will see the light and get into shotgun later in their careers, or maybe not - I am just fine with it either way.
  17. At the exact time I posted my question, I was sat at the back of a room of about 400 shooters all pretending to care who won 2nd C class in Production or some nonsense. The award ceremonies at the end of a major match waste a LOT of everyone’s time. The cost of trophies isn’t trivial either. I’d rather MDs skip the trophies and put the $$$ on the prize table. If we must have a classification system, just do it for bragging rights only and let’s save everyone’s time and money.
  18. Just for the record, I believe the whole classification systems is a silly "everyone gets a trophy" waste of time and energy. I'd rather it just go away, but I do recognize the revenue stream motivator for USPSA to keep it as it is.
  19. Simple question: If the classification system is supposed to pit shooters of like ability together, why does classification get locked at the highest class a shooter ever attains? We all get older and less sharp over time, and HHFs get higher, so shouldn't the system recognize that reality? Yes, I know there is a mechanism for asking to be downgraded, but my guess is few do this because of the prestige and self-esteem associated with a higher ranking. An automatic downgrade according to current performance would ensure folks were placed in a class reflective of their true ability regardless of ego. An agreeable further benefit would be reduction in the “paper GM” problem, and perhaps a reduced incentive for some folks to work the system to get a GM card by what we might call nefarious means. I get that some folks might sandbag to get into a lower class, but I am confident a suitable algorithm could minimize any gaming of the process. Thoughts?
  20. It's all about the up-front match design - once the first shot is fired, the die is cast: Design and build the match in advance using a dedicated crew - don't ask the shooters to setup or their asses will be dragging before their first stage. We setup the afternoon of the previous day. If you can partner with another match before or after, you can greatly reduce everyone's workload. Limit the number of stages, but make them really interesting. If your paradigm is 6-8 stages, you are going to be phoning-in at least a couple of those designs, everyone can expect to be there all day, and the number of shooters you can push through will be limited. At the end of that day, everyone will be dead on their feet and not looking forward to the next match. Sometimes less is more - our monthly is a 4-stage affair, but our goal is for all four of those stages to be great and for folks to be counting the days to the next month. Accept that EVERY stage does not have to involve all three guns (or even a gun transition). Making ready with 2 or 3 guns and then clearing them afterwards absolutely kills the schedule. Typically only one or two stages at our monthly matches will have a gun transition (the others will be one-gun stages). If we have a 3-gun stage, we follow it with a quicker stage so any delay is absorbed in the total match schedule. We also preload shotguns to save time. Use self-resetting targets as much as possible. Unlike USPSA, outlaw MDs can use whatever targets we want. Ringing steel is a staple - we hang them on firehose or rebar stands and they work awesome. Engaging the self-resetters from multiple locations lets you create an enjoyable shooting challenge without a lot of reset work. Limit the round count - think quality over quantity. Sometimes the temptation is to jazz-up boring stage designs with uber-high round counts. Higher round counts mean more time shooting, more time resetting and more money spent on ammo, but seldom mean more fun. Squad sizes need to be manageable. Bigger squads mean too much standing around, smaller squads mean not enough resetters. We settle on 4 x 13 person squads for our monthly multigun matches, and we run 2 relays (7:00am-10:30am and then 10:30am-2:00pm) for a total of 104 shooters. Each shooter is in and out inside 4 hours. Populate each squad with a couple of experienced RO butt-kickers who ensure resetting is done efficiently and safely, and shared equitably. If you want a bigger/multigun stage, design it with defined shooting areas progressively further downrange from one another so guns can be cleared and targets reset behind the shooter (of course, some common sense is needed with gun clearing as regards placement and who does the clearing). I hope this makes sense. Feel free to post additional questions.
  21. We have three monthly Multigun matches within 1 hour drive. All use the same rules (IMA-SMM3G). At my match (Rio Salado) you can shoot 4 stages in 3-1/2 hours.
  22. These are important points. Shotgun is 1/3 of the guns but more than 1/2 the gear (pricey guns, heavy/bulky ammo, expensive shotshell caddy systems etc.). Those choosing 2-Gun over 3-Gun appreciate only having to bring about half the stuff, and younger guys - the next generation of shooters - don’t want to spend big $$$ on specialized shotgun gear that is useless for anything outside our narrow game. Some who are already established in 3-Gun like to dismiss these points as “excuses”, but my experience as a Multigun MD says otherwise. Our matches are growing, and the lion’s share of that growth is coming from new 2-gunners.
  23. Over the last couple of years, since we created 2-Gun versions of our regular 3-Gun divisions, we have grown our monthly multigun match participation steadily to the point where the matches sell out in minutes. Typical participation is 2/3 3-Gun and 1/3 2-Gun. Some 2-Gun participation has certainly been cannibalization of existing 3-Gun shooters, but a lot has been new shooters or returning shooters who tired of the shotgun loading game. Whether you want to believe it or not, shotgun loading IS the number one barrier to new shooter entry... a barrier easily overcome by offering 2-Gun as an option.
  24. You can start that way if you wish, though you will be doing more reloads. If you get more serious, you can get yourself a dedicated 9mm lower later. CMMG Guard is a great system.
  25. IMHO for USPSA handgun matches (max range 50 yards), the MRO is a better choice based on parallax and FOV. The difference is small, but may be noticeable at 50 yards under the right circumstances. I would not rush out to replace an Aimpoint I already had, but if buying a new optic I’d favor the MRO.
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