NewColonial Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) For the most part if you didn't have the internet and only went and shot matches you'd have no idea of any USPSA HQ turmoil. This is different If I didn't have internet I wouldn't know about the IDPA scoring turmoil either. (Granted I haven't shot an IDPA match in a couple weeks.) And the USPSA leadership issues were oft discussed at the USPSA matches I went too. Edited October 3, 2015 by NewColonial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 The only reason I'm posting here is that IDPA is the only sport I'm aware of that actively tries to piss off the members... You must not be paying close attention to USPSA leadership. USPSA is responsive to the membership. People want new divisions and rules changed and it generally happens not so with IDPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 The check was written (against my better judgment) for a 2016 "renewal." After being told about this change and reading this thread, I'm glad I didn't waste a stamp. This change has only 1 purpose...to slow down the better shooters so the "less than competent" shooters in the speed department aren't "outclassed" as badly as they already are. IDPA should just come out and say that M's and DM's are no longer welcomed and once you reach that level you are required to "get lost." When Larry Vickers takes to FB and trumpets this decision...that should tell you ALL you need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Bit of a thread drift... Do IDPA members frequently troll in the USPSA forums? I've only posted a handful of post there, but I didn't notice any animosity towards the sport from IDPA member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) Bit of a thread drift... Do IDPA members frequently troll in the USPSA forums? I've only posted a handful of post there, but I didn't notice any animosity towards the sport from IDPA member. There is more than a few "matters in need of correction" @ USPSA.... Disenfranchising a segment of their membership based on their shooting skill and competency isn't one of 'em. Edited October 4, 2015 by Chuck D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racknrider Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Bit of a thread drift... Do IDPA members frequently troll in the USPSA forums? I've only posted a handful of post there, but I didn't notice any animosity towards the sport from IDPA member. One of my pet peeves. USPSA guys dog IDPA online and at their matches. Hardly ever hear IDPA shooters even mention USPSA. Why the animosity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 No animosity here, I simply stated a fact: IDPA is running off a lot of business and that kind of behavior will eventually kill it off. Apparently harsh facts hurt people's feelings and they defensively start calling names like "troll" instead of having an adult conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 No animosity here, I simply stated a fact: IDPA is running off a lot of business and that kind of behavior will eventually kill it off. Apparently harsh facts hurt people's feelings and they defensively start calling names like "troll" instead of having an adult conversation. What facts do you have to support that? And when I commented about trolls, it was not directed at anyone on this thread. I just happen to notice a number of people posting on the IDPA sub forum that aren't being constructive. If this behavior is being mirrored in the USPSA forums by our members, I would like to apologize on their behalf. It's easy to find fault in things. Seems finding the good isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I don't have any data or spreadsheets to prove my point, but I'll tell you my findings and you can take it or leave it. During the usual match day chit-chat I almost always ask my squadmates what other shooting sports they play. Again, no records or official polls here, just friendly conversation between shooters. What I've gathered is that the majority of the people I've asked (representing my state and the 4 closest adjacent states) over 30-35 years old either started in or used to frequently play IDPA, they got tired of rule changes and subjective calls and left for good. The shooters under that age group laugh at me if I mention IDPA and say something to the effect of it being an old man's sport where you get in trouble for being good. I'll probably bow out of this thread now, I honestly thought I could give an "on the outside looking in" perspective here but it's clear that it's not being taken that way. There's still no animosity here though, I hope everyone has a great time shooting their chosen sport whatever that may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Like I said earlier. It won't change anything at the top, but it definitely will in the middle of the pack. The fat part of the bell curve. And for those who take the time to look at their score and see how much of it is coming from error, again like in the math I did earlier, most will make a conscious decision to slow it down. I agree with others that changing the flavor, or mental pressure to encourage one to slow down will lessen my enjoyment. A match is already 20 seconds of you shooting per 45 minutes you're at the match. Now make that 20 seconds more methodical? No thanks. IDPA is golf with guns. Rules, times, scores, equipment, courses, goofy clothes and all. You can change the rules and it will change the game. I just wish there was a clear vision and consensus from those writing the rules. It's bad enough I have to explain it like this to a friend, "So I run over here to shoot these targets. But I have to stop rriigght here on this invisible fault line. That moves per each target. That someone standing behind me supposedly can see. Oh and they get to penalize me in a way that's roughly 10-20% of my score for the stage with additional time off a glance. To that moving, invisible fault line." And now that I'm ranting about cover and it's subjective nature...... I HAVE taken a string and taped it to the center of the target, ran it to the edge of cover and beyond. In my experiment what was proven with a measurement to show where cover truly is, was much more liberal than the eyeball method. IE most people who just stand back and look are getting it wrong. And then to expect them to make that call on the fly? HA. IDPA would do best to remove the things that actually happen on the range, in the match that deal with intent or any sort of subjectivity. And hire a technical writer to at least proof read your rule book. Then set them in stone and call it good. I've only been shooting IDPA for three years and I have seen 3 iterations of the rules. Not just silly but damaging. Just like this -1=1sec will be. Perhaps this new rule is to intentionally get the fast guys like you to leave the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 OP, sorry to have derailed this thread. Tony, thanks for sharing the observation. It's always insightful to see how things are playing out outside of our own neck of the woods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Just a thought pertaining to the above... I know a dozen shooters in my North Florida area who used to be heavily involved with IDPA and are now spending more time in USPSA. I also know of one club that says they are not renewing their IDPA affiliation, and another club that is considering just running "Action Pistol" matches instead of "by the book" IDPA matches. I don't know how widespread this is, but I'm seeing it. For the record I am IDPA MA in SSP&Bug, and EX in CCP, CDP, ESP & Revolver. I'm not certain if I will renew my membership, and pretty certain I will not be shooting anymore IDPA sanctioned matches. I've been an IDPA member since 2005; participated in several National Championships, the first World Championship, and a dozen regional matches. That has carried me to 7 different states. I may continue to shoot a couple of local clubs with friends, but I'm done investing $700-$900 to travel to matches where even the SOs can't keep up with the constant Rule Book changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peplow530 Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 OP, sorry to have derailed this thread. Tony, thanks for sharing the observation. It's always insightful to see how things are playing out outside of our own neck of the woods. No problem, I got a good idea on how people view the change within the first few pages, hahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) IDPA will continue to grow and prosper. The repeated predictions of its demise as an organization have been going on for years, and the membership and match participation are still increasing. There will be people that leave because of this change, just as they have due to other reasons. Many more people will take their place. That's the way it's always been. The people that can (or want to) adapt...do. The ones that choose not to adapt to change will unfortunately be heard the loudest in forums like this, as they continue to troll and try to justify their viewpoint and choices ad nauseum. Edited October 5, 2015 by BillR1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elguapo Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 BillR1, what evidence do you have that IDPA is growing? Furthermore, what data do you have to suggest that it will continue to grow after these proposed rule changes are enacted? If you think that IDPA, or any other of your favorite shooting sports, cannot die, stop by the local NRA bullseye pistol match for a reality check..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 BillR1, what evidence do you have that IDPA is growing? Furthermore, what data do you have to suggest that it will continue to grow after these proposed rule changes are enacted? If you think that IDPA, or any other of your favorite shooting sports, cannot die, stop by the local NRA bullseye pistol match for a reality check..... I have at least as much evidence as the naysayers predicting IDPA's downfall...local participation is up and matches are full. In addition, IDPA's published membership stats show consistent growth worldwide. With every rule change and rule book revision, people claim that IDPA will die. Yet it's doing quite well in many/most areas of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elguapo Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 IDPA's published membership stats show consistent growth worldwide. Do they, now? Kinda hard to take them seriously since nothing there can be audited.....private corporation and all that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GARD72977 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 I was really pissed about the new rule. I even though about not shooting IDPA anymore. I shot my local club match Saturday with emphasis on accuracy. I shot like I would under the new rule to see how It would affect the fun of shooting a match. I have to say that it was not big deal. I won most accurate and came in second overall (lost by 1.53 seconds). Under the new rules I would have won easily. I know that others would shoot different but they would have had to slow down a little. I have to say that it was not bad. Try it before you pass judgment you may like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Try it before you pass judgment you may like it. Are you nutz? This is the internet. Not only do we pass judgement but we execute before the "alleged" crime is even committed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45 Raven Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 "This is the internet. Not only do we pass judgement but we execute before the "alleged" crime is even committed." And we do it with indignant rage and confrontational, unabashed authority as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acespeedy Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I shoot NRA Tactical Police Challenge (TPC) 3 Gun matches where the -1/C zone is 2 second penalty and the -3/D is a 4 second penalty and a miss is 10 seconds. Also, if the round touches the next scoring ring you are give the higher penalty, breaks the -3/D perf and you just earned a 4 second penalty, makeup shots are usually allowed except on some stages. No shoots are 10 seconds and Failure to engage is 40 second penalty. You have to shoot extremely accurately but in order to place on top you have to shoot fast. I think it's like IDPA on crack, but I enjoy the punishment. Coming from IDPA background it was a little easier to accept the accuracy to speed ratio. I haven't shot an IDPA match in the past three years even though I purchased the 3 year membership and I'm not sure if I'll be back to shoot a regional but I'm glad I got introduced to the shooting sports via IDPA. I think pushing accuracy in a sport that is marketed towards defensive/CHL/LE should push accuracy, maybe I'll go back and shoot my edc G34 (next year it wont be legal for TPC G17/22 will be the longest allowed). JG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 But "our NRA" does not approve of "civilians" shooting at humanoid targets. I can't get in TPC or PPC however much I would like the event. Interesting that it has reverse scoring ring values. Every other match I know of, if you touch the ring you get the better value, not the worse. Well, except for NMLRA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMC Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I will and see how it shakes out before I make any decisions. Until its in effect I have a tough time visualizing the differences it will ultimately make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan454 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 As a few pointed out, most of the shooting sports are like "golf with a handgun". They are all fun in different ways but each has a rule book and a winner. The rule change to make points down a bigger hit is fine with me. The guys who shoot well will still shoot well, you don't often increase your scores by shooting inaccurately faster. It's the accuracy picking up speed with practice. This was my first year shooting REV and I quickly learned making each shot count is a good strategy when reloads happen more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I'm having trouble understanding why IDPA deliberately creates changes that mean very little. It really does not matter whether reloads are moving or standing still, how wide an opening you can cross, whether there is nearly impossible to interpret halls and rooms, or now 1/2 or 1 second per point down. As long as everyone shoots by the same rules, the best shooter will win. Who the hell cares about shuffling among the losers. I do believe this new (apparently certain) change will cost IDPA members. It has nothing to do with 1 second and everything to do with constant change and total disregard for members opinions. If they cared they would require fault lines to eliminate the completely unfair cover calls for anyone except the well known. I would happily drop IDPA except all the indoor winter matches allow me to shoot through the winter months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now