rowdyb Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 isnt idpa different enough already? -personal equipment is different -guns are different -wearing concealment -shooting from cover -round count -scoring zones -fixed hit factor stages -reloads -scenarios -no shoot designation and ratio tweaking the scoring, actually your penalty for inaccuracy, isn't one of the things that makes idpa special and different from uspsa. if anything it brings it closer to what happens to you in uspsa, the thing people who haven't shot much of call the hoser sport. in uspsa you can zero a stage. the idpa equivalent would be as if if they scored you the stage having not fired a shot into any target, the whole thing mikes. shoot a mike in uspsa and you lose the points you would have earned for that shot aannndd the same amount again. hmmm, sounds kinda like taking a scored hit where down 1 equals half a second and adding another half second to it. very uspsa like........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWSixgunner Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I'm slow as molasses and couldn't care less. I'd rather be penalized for a miss than some of the stupid procedurals, like using boxes for cover that aren't really cover. Or not doing a slo-mo moonwalk as I shoot. As to catering to age: there's a senior division for us old folks. Don't screw with the rules for everyone just for old farts like me. If I wanna get faster and compete with the youngsters, I'll get in shape and start gaming (the latter I won't do..) CAS looks fun, but I'm not gonna play cowboy to shoot. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Any practical shooting match is nothing more than a product that people find value in attending. If a sanctioning body chooses to "sour" the product with inappropriate rule changes then competitors need to start showing their displeasure by voting with their feet. If you are into the practical shooting sports there are plenty of other types of matches to attend. Keep in mind that at the core of every practical shooting sanctioning body financial viability is paramount to their long term sustainability. If you screw the product up enough to start impacting the income then it should be obvious that the incorrect rule changes were made and it lead to reduced attendance or even losing club affiliations. I don't shoot IDPA matches any more because I don't find them as challenging or fun as USPSA matches. Since I am not an active IDPA match goer you can take my opinion on the subject as such. When I hear that there is talk of increasing the -1 hits to one second penalty I can't think of a reason why that would improve the match experience for the average shooter. I can see how it would further separate the "average" shooters from the good ones. It does not make sense to further punish the average shooters who are the ones that are usually paying the bills and making the matches happen. But then again I choose to not participate in IDPA matches because it's not my cup of tea, so maybe I just don't get it all together anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 The hot scoop, from two sources in contact with HQ, is that we will have a new Classifier to reflect +1 Joyce scoring by Spring 2016. They had no details as to whether it would be a new Classifier or just a new classification table on the same 90 shots but scored +1. I am betting the latter, although a shorter Classifier that could be included in a sanctioned match would be handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racknrider Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 According to the chatter from the other site, your old classification will still apply, so a new classifier is of little interest to me. If I applied 1 point scoring to my old classifier I would drop 2 classes but I can't drop in class so to me my current classification will become invalid when 1 point scoring begins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Interesting point! IDPA says you can't drop in classification without a complete medical review. Yet, they can change the classification procedures (the latest Rules change) and lower the times/scores to make classifications.... but you're still stuck in your current classification and can't do squat about it... even if you can't shoot the current classification scores. If you were a lower level Expert who now shoots the Classifier at upper level SS scores.... you're still an expert. Add the 1 second scoring to the current system and you'll have classified Masters shooting mid-Expert scores. Did anyone in Berryville think this whole process through? I would think that ... logically.... when the new classification scores came out that they would allow shooters to be re-classified via current scores. Not! Did they extend that lack of thought process to the 1 second scoring rule? I would hope they would make some process for shooters to re-classify to a realistic level... but I won't hold my breath, since they didn't do it with the first classifier time change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) Interesting point! IDPA says you can't drop in classification without a complete medical review. Yet, they can change the classification procedures (the latest Rules change) and lower the times/scores to make classifications.... but you're still stuck in your current classification and can't do squat about it... even if you can't shoot the current classification scores. If you were a lower level Expert who now shoots the Classifier at upper level SS scores.... you're still an expert. Add the 1 second scoring to the current system and you'll have classified Masters shooting mid-Expert scores. Did anyone in Berryville think this whole process through? I would think that ... logically.... when the new classification scores came out that they would allow shooters to be re-classified via current scores. Not! Did they extend that lack of thought process to the 1 second scoring rule? I would hope they would make some process for shooters to re-classify to a realistic level... but I won't hold my breath, since they didn't do it with the first classifier time change. There are probably many people (me included!) who would have trouble shooting a classifier equal to their current level. I remember you stated yourself that you probably couldn't shoot an SSP MA classifier time now that it changed to 91 seconds. That's what happens sometimes when a shooter gets a match bump. Honest question...is it really a major concern that a shooter is unable to shoot a classifier that matches their awarded level? Edited November 18, 2015 by BillR1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 BillR.... I think it does if you spend $500-$800 to attend a sanctioned match (motel, travel, entry fee, etc.)... and know in advance that you are 'not playing on a level skill field". Do you go to the match, knowing that you're shooting in a classification above your actual level? Do you spend that money, knowing you should be in the class below your classification? And then you ask yourself why the Classification system is not a reflection on reality. Just a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gryff Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Did anyone in Berryville think this whole process through? Why would they need to? They own the sport. It is has never been (more than a token) about what the membership wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) BillR.... I think it does if you spend $500-$800 to attend a sanctioned match (motel, travel, entry fee, etc.)... and know in advance that you are 'not playing on a level skill field". Do you go to the match, knowing that you're shooting in a classification above your actual level? Do you spend that money, knowing you should be in the class below your classification? Actually...yes...and fairly often. My SSP/ESP shooting is probably an upper-level SS. However, I got some match bumps to EX a couple of years ago. (The SSP bump was for a 2nd place finish!) Whenever I compete in SSP or ESP now at a level 2-3 match, I usually finish in the bottom 3rd of my class. I'm not complaining really...that's just where I happen to fall right now. I still find it fun to shoot and compete with better shooters, so I keep plugging away. Edited November 18, 2015 by BillR1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) Gryff....USPSA is thanking Berryville BillR... Not everyone accepts your "plugging away" philosophy... when it adds up to some serious money spent in an attempt to win a trophy for the wall. Only time will tell... but I do know a number of formerly die-hard IDPA shooters who now have USPSA member #s and spend a lot of their time there. I also know a number of long time IDPA SOs who no longer are... and a couple of clubs that have not totally dropped their IDPA membership... but aren't paying a whole lot of attention to the IDPA Rules when they put on monthly matches for their members. I wonder what IDPA's actual membership will be a year from now..... but only time will tell. I've seen some figures (admittedly on the internet) regarding the total number of classifications held by IDPA shooters that would indicate... to someone knowledgeable about the game.... that their paid membership #s are far less than they advertise. Edited November 18, 2015 by GOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 OK...I can shoot EX-level classifiers in BUG, CCP, CDP, and REV. Does that mean those are the only divisions I should be shooting in at sanctioned matches? I still enjoy shooting and competing with my full-size 9mms, even if my scores don't happen to place high in the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 BillR... if you're having fun by all means keep it up and enjoy it. There are others who have felt differently, and that's their right as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 BillR... Not everyone accepts your "plugging away" philosophy... when it adds up to some serious money spent in an attempt to win a trophy for the wall. Only time will tell... but I do know a number of formerly die-hard IDPA shooters who now have USPSA member #s and spend a lot of their time there. Maybe "plugging away" was a bad use of terms.... I try to win every time out. But I'm also realistic enough to know that only one person wins the match. And most of the time, that "winner" is not a 56 year-old chunky guy with aging eyesight and a surgically-repaired foot. Luckily for me, I've found many things I enjoy about shooting IDPA other than just the occasional piece of wood for the wall. It's still well worth the price of admission to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigamortis Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 So, the reasoning behind making the move to 1 point down = 1 sec is to encourage more accurate, responsible shooting in self defense scenarios. With that said, stage 3 of the classifier shouldn't need to be 20 yards distance any more. 20 yards away and trying to engage hostiles with a handgun doesn't seem too responsible to me. I say stage 3 should be 15 yards max with the barrel at 10 yards. What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racknrider Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 So, the reasoning behind making the move to 1 point down = 1 sec is to encourage more accurate, responsible shooting in self defense scenarios. With that said, stage 3 of the classifier shouldn't need to be 20 yards distance any more. 20 yards away and trying to engage hostiles with a handgun doesn't seem too responsible to me. I say stage 3 should be 15 yards max with the barrel at 10 yards. What do you guys think? Heavens no! Stage 3 is what keeps me from making Master and that's just the way I like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanCdp Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 I agree needs to be at 20 yards and I would have it at 25 to 30 if all clubs had a bay deep enough.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I'm gonna start calling it "Joyce Scoring", I like that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee loo Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I'm gonna start calling it "Joyce Scoring", I like that idea. I like that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I have been calling it "Joyce Count." They are trying to blame it on Larry Vickers who says he wanted +1 scoring to start with but nobody is willing to claim credit for the short lived .3 sec/point scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 I have been calling it "Joyce Count." They are trying to blame it on Larry Vickers who says he wanted +1 scoring to start with but nobody is willing to claim credit for the short lived .3 sec/point scheme. I got to thinking about Bubba trying to do the math with the .3 scheme and it occurred to me that maybe with the nations scoring in math dropping all the time that 1 point per second may be necessary for the numerically challenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3gunDQ Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 IDPA is a game of rules... Not a shooting competition. IDPA is changing the rules to help the dinosaurs that turtle around shooting zeros... And are so slow the don't make the top ten, you know the ones. AND the justification is "it is defensive so the hits should count more." BS! If it was defensive I wouldn't have ten rounds or care about dropping mags! If it is defensive eliminate walk through... You cant air gun, and it's defensive so why do you get to see the targets? IDPA is what it is, not very fun... And them changing the rules every year to suit a few is absurd. I already don't shoot it much but now I'm dropping it all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 That is OK with me. But please don't hang around telling us dinosaurs all we are doing wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeidaho Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) But, but, but, if people that don't shoot IDPA stop posting here, ya know like the forum rules say, what will we do for drama? Edited November 27, 2015 by freeidaho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 But, but, but, if people that don't shoot IDPA stop posting here, ya know like the forum rules say, what will we do for drama? ^^^THIS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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