Brooke Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'm looking at it like this. I don't care whether a point down is 1/2 sec or 1 sec. I do care that this was suddenly sprung upon everyone with no chance for input from the IDPA shooting community. I also have seen no discussion of other possibly associated changes. These are the penalty for a miss and the penalty for hitting a no shoot. I have heard no-shoot rumors as high as 20 seconds. Depending on the miss penalties that could mean deliberately missing targets with difficult no-shoots might be the best strategy. One thing that everyone seems to ignore or not understand is that IDPA scoring is like stroke play golf. Any and all times (raw or penalty related) are a part of your final tally. A single no-shoot of 20 (or even 10 sec) can cause you to go on home because the match is over for you. USPSA shooting is like match play in golf. Each stage is its own score. You can be aggressive and try to make up later if you screw up. It is well understood in golf that stroke play scoring means playing stroke carefully to minimize a serious screwup and match play encourages aggressive play to win the hole, not just tie it. Thus, depending on what happens here you could see much slower shooting in the mid ranks to maximize accuracy. So to relate that to a real gunfight you may be killed by the hoser while you are still aiming. If the match killing penalties for no-shoots are not accompanied by similar match killing penalties for mikes then you will see deliberate mikes on some targets. There are no compelling reasons to change the rules that I can see. Were we not told that the rules would be stable for two years after the last change? So much for believing that clap trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robport Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 But how do you know what the Joyce Count Scoring Classifier will look like? You can't just take present scores, double the points down and look them up on the present chart. Do you get a PE for not doing the "tactical look-around" and loading your magazines fully after ULSC? Those will get you KOTS. LV said so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewColonial Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) A single no-shoot of 20 (or even 10 sec) can cause you to go on home because the match is over for you. Maybe that's only bright side to the rule change. A lot of folks shoot for fun, and being around people who moan and whine after a bad stage are PITAs to be around. I'd be happy to see them leave. Edited October 2, 2015 by NewColonial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff F Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Going home because you are not shooting well doesn't sound very sportsman like. People that spray and pray need to account for those bullets that don't hit the target. No shoot should be a higher penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I work in I.T. and have for many years. The Practiscore program on a tablet is a long way from "intuitive". I can sure understand that non-techies would have a learning period with it. Do you care to elaborate, which parts of PractiScore program are not intuitive? You know, it could be improved if we've got the right feedback... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Were we not told that the rules would be stable for two years after the last change? So much for believing that clap trap. I have seen several (unofficial) assertions that the 1:1 scoring will not go into effect until 2017, which will meet the letter of the stability clause. This will give people time to make up their minds to accept the change or do Something Else. I know a couple of shooters who will quit a match if things are not going to suit them. They are experienced skilled shooters, just excessively temperamental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Going home because you are not shooting well doesn't sound very sportsman like. People that spray and pray need to account for those bullets that don't hit the target. No shoot should be a higher penalty. exactly. I propose a $10,000 fine and a 2 week jail sentence for every no-shoot, so fewer people will get killed in the streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elguapo Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Rage quits are always fun to watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I work in I.T. and have for many years. The Practiscore program on a tablet is a long way from "intuitive". I can sure understand that non-techies would have a learning period with it. Do you care to elaborate, which parts of PractiScore program are not intuitive? You know, it could be improved if we've got the right feedback... The application is fine. Im a network engineer and I helped our club get going on practiscore. The website is the problem. There needs to be a better way to find matches and scores then searching through the list of events. If you could associate your account to your club and easily find it that way would be good. A more advanced searching feature such as filtering events by location city/state/zip would be extremely helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 A single no-shoot of 20 (or even 10 sec) can cause you to go on home because the match is over for you.Maybe that's only bright side to the rule change. A lot of folks shoot for fun, and being around people who moan and whine after a bad stage are PITAs to be around. I'd be happy to see them leave. Something tells me we may have found the PITA. I have never whined about anything. A system that puts you out of competition with a single bad shot will sink the sport. I'm beginning to think that might be a good thing. Let's do 5 sec per point down. It'll help me because I can't run fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Going home because you are not shooting well doesn't sound very sportsman like. People that spray and pray need to account for those bullets that don't hit the target. No shoot should be a higher penalty. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I work in I.T. and have for many years. The Practiscore program on a tablet is a long way from "intuitive". I can sure understand that non-techies would have a learning period with it. Do you care to elaborate, which parts of PractiScore program are not intuitive? You know, it could be improved if we've got the right feedback... If no one touches a wrong button, it works good. If a user happens to get somehow out of the program on the tablet, it takes some experience to get back to where you were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I work in I.T. and have for many years. The Practiscore program on a tablet is a long way from "intuitive". I can sure understand that non-techies would have a learning period with it. Do you care to elaborate, which parts of PractiScore program are not intuitive? You know, it could be improved if we've got the right feedback... If no one touches a wrong button, it works good. If a user happens to get somehow out of the program on the tablet, it takes some experience to get back to where you were. When I set them up I lock the tablet to their squad. We have not had any issues so far with the tablets or apps but I could see where you could run into issues depending on the user. Our matches are simple compared to some so that likley helps keep down on the issues. Last month we ran into an issue with our 3 gun match and were getting an error trying to post the scores, but thats the biggest thing I have seen so far. If the website/searching function was overhauled it would make for an even bettter system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Do you care to elaborate, which parts of PractiScore program are not intuitive? You know, it could be improved if we've got the right feedback... If no one touches a wrong button, it works good. If a user happens to get somehow out of the program on the tablet, it takes some experience to get back to where you were. You mean like you need to know your squad number and the stage where you were at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Do you care to elaborate, which parts of PractiScore program are not intuitive? You know, it could be improved if we've got the right feedback... If no one touches a wrong button, it works good. If a user happens to get somehow out of the program on the tablet, it takes some experience to get back to where you were. You mean like you need to know your squad number and the stage where you were at? I've seen a tablet where it takes a good bit more than that to get back to shooting. JMO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 OK.. everybody is talking about a -1 going to a full second instead of .5. My question is did they adjust the -3 and Mike to reflect higher penalty times? Also, did they increase the penalties for HNT and FTN? If they didn't do that I have to wonder if the stated reason "we are responsible for the bullets we fire" was well thought out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Tompkins Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) OK.. everybody is talking about a -1 going to a full second instead of .5. My question is did they adjust the -3 and Mike to reflect higher penalty times? Also, did they increase the penalties for HNT and FTN? If they didn't do that I have to wonder if the stated reason "we are responsible for the bullets we fire" was well thought out. As I understand it, 1 point = 1 sec. So a -1 = 1 sec, -3 = 3 sec, -5 (miss) = 5 sec. As to the HNT and FTN, I've not seen any indications of changes there, but.... Edited October 2, 2015 by Rob Tompkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Tompkins Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 OK.. everybody is talking about a -1 going to a full second instead of .5. My question is did they adjust the -3 and Mike to reflect higher penalty times? Also, did they increase the penalties for HNT and FTN? If they didn't do that I have to wonder if the stated reason "we are responsible for the bullets we fire" was well thought out. Based on the "we are responsible for the bullets we fire" approch, do we get a -5 for any extra shots that are misses? Hummm...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 If no one touches a wrong button, it works good. If a user happens to get somehow out of the program on the tablet, it takes some experience to get back to where you were. You mean like you need to know your squad number and the stage where you were at? I've seen a tablet where it takes a good bit more than that to get back to shooting. JMO... That must have been an Apple device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 OK.. everybody is talking about a -1 going to a full second instead of .5. My question is did they adjust the -3 and Mike to reflect higher penalty times? Also, did they increase the penalties for HNT and FTN? If they didn't do that I have to wonder if the stated reason "we are responsible for the bullets we fire" was well thought out. I was at the awards banquet, Chris. But with my poor hearing in my old age, I can't guarantee I heard everything accurately from the PA system. I *think* Joyce mentioned the possibility of looking at other penalties as well (maybe HNT?) But quite possible that I mis-heard. It's not a "did". It's a "gonna do". No time frame announced. My own attitude is "wait and see...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Certainly if you want to encourage accuracy for those encounters "in the real world" (Duck, kittens!) then a severe penalty for HoNT would be appropriate. Local LE oriented shoot has been at 1:1 and 10 sec HoNT for some time and is redoubling HoNT and FTN to 20 sec. I'll let you know how that works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Interesting. IDPA looks less attractive with each passing day.Sounds like IDPA may not be the game for you. Many of us enjoy it thoroughly! Isn't it nice to have different games to please everyone?Yup, I think it's great how many different shooting sports there are, even though most of them are not my cup of tea. The only reason I'm posting here is that IDPA is the only sport I'm aware of that actively tries to piss off the members and creates so much confusion with vague and constantly shifting rules that it keeps the next generation of shooters far away. The way I see it, any organization that repels the next generation is doomed. People can take this post personally and get butt hurt if they like, I even enjoy a good funny comeback now and then, but if you actually read what I'm saying instead you'll see that at the very least, in my area IDPA is shooting itself in the foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewColonial Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 The only reason I'm posting here is that IDPA is the only sport I'm aware of that actively tries to piss off the members... You must not be paying close attention to USPSA leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Every organization does at some point piss off the little people. Not many of them work REALLY hard at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 The only reason I'm posting here is that IDPA is the only sport I'm aware of that actively tries to piss off the members... You must not be paying close attention to USPSA leadership. For the most part if you didn't have the internet and only went and shot matches you'd have no idea of any USPSA HQ turmoil. This is different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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