Is idpa really fun?

[Bart Solo]

I just read the entire thread because this winter I find myself away from home. Where I live USPSA clubs are the rule and IDPA is nonexistant. This winter I find IDPA is the only available game. I read the rules yesterday and don't find them that difficult. I suspect I can live with them.

When you read this thread and others talking about shooting sports being fun you quickly realize most complaints involve how people relate to their fellow shooters. I suspect rhat is the case here. Two guys argue some fine point in the rules for half an hour without realizing that while they are having fun arguing they are angering the rest of the group who just want to shoot. Another guy complains about the tacticool people who are convinced the game is deadly serious training for that never in a lifetime shootout. Again a complaint about people. Others complain about an SO favoring his buddy over a stranger. Again a human complaint.

There are two things all of us should look for in a shooting sport--safety and fun. Since any sport is a human activity we all have an obligation to look out for each other. We, you, me and the guy behind the tree need to make sure everybody participating is safe and is having fun. When that happens the gripes fall away. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you and don't take the game all that seriously. None of us club shooters are going to win a car.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Bart Solo

[Brooke]

I think IDPA blew it!! The changes in USPSA Carry Optics division rules leave IDPA in the dust.

When the most recent IDPA rule book revisions were made they chose to create a CCD division, but not a division for optical sights. They could have been first to adopt this technology, but the conservative members would not listen. USPSA chose to investigate this use and have now chosen to make it mainstream for the current Production division guns (with a suitable weight limit) and create a Carry Optics division. It is almost impossible to believe that red dot optics will not essentially replace all iron sights for police and military use in the immediate future. The general pistol market will follow quickly. With so many pistols being sold for self defense in this crazy world, owners will want to hit what they are aiming at rather than provoke a fight that they might very well lose.

It is amazing that IDPA proposes to go to a 1point down = 1 second penalty to emphasize the need to avoid collateral damage while ignoring the most effective method to make shots more accurate....optical sights.

I predict the complete collapse of IDPA because gun owners will immediately adopt a sight that is not legal for IDPA competition. For those who say they can still adopt optical sights, I say nonsense. They ignored the obvious technology switch, locked themselves into a 2 year ban on rule changes, do not recognize the fact that any IDPA shooter who tries USPSA will never come back to IDPA and its subjective procedural penalties.

[racknrider]

Wow! I better see if IDPA will refund my membership fees before it collapses ?

[FWSixgunner]

IDPA matches are a lot easier to find and require less specialized/expensive equipment, especially for us revolver shooters.

Revo shooters can compete in IDPA with a LEO trade in S&W model 10 costing $300., a $60 holster and a few speed loaders.

USPSA you pretty much need an 8-round PC revolver costing 3-4 times as much, speed holster, two specialized belt,s and tons of moon clips plus mooning/de-mooning tools. Oh, yeah, and a dot sight starting at $300.

I do hate the cover garment rule. With 45 states allowing open carry, I think they'll have to do away with it & have a concealment class.

Optical sights: yeah they'll probably have to permit them at some point. They're not gonna collapse if they don't do it now.

Point down: so what? Everyone plays by the same rules.

Who says you have to pick one?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gryff]

I think IDPA blew it!! The changes in USPSA Carry Optics division rules leave IDPA in the dust.

When the most recent IDPA rule book revisions were made they chose to create a CCD division, but not a division for optical sights. They could have been first to adopt this technology, but the conservative members would not listen. USPSA chose to investigate this use and have now chosen to make it mainstream for the current Production division guns (with a suitable weight limit) and create a Carry Optics division. It is almost impossible to believe that red dot optics will not essentially replace all iron sights for police and military use in the immediate future. The general pistol market will follow quickly. With so many pistols being sold for self defense in this crazy world, owners will want to hit what they are aiming at rather than provoke a fight that they might very well lose.

It is amazing that IDPA proposes to go to a 1point down = 1 second penalty to emphasize the need to avoid collateral damage while ignoring the most effective method to make shots more accurate....optical sights.

I predict the complete collapse of IDPA because gun owners will immediately adopt a sight that is not legal for IDPA competition. For those who say they can still adopt optical sights, I say nonsense. They ignored the obvious technology switch, locked themselves into a 2 year ban on rule changes, do not recognize the fact that any IDPA shooter who tries USPSA will never come back to IDPA and its subjective procedural penalties.

10,000 people carry compact guns on a daily basis. 317 people use carry optics on a daily basis. IDPA made the right call since they were only adding one division. Better to go with one that actually represents real shooters rather than going with the trendy one.

[Rangerdug]

I just read the entire thread because this winter I find myself away from home. Where I live USPSA clubs are the rule and IDPA is nonexistant. This winter I find IDPA is the only available game. I read the rules yesterday and don't find them that difficult. I suspect I can live with them.

When you read this thread and others talking about shooting sports being fun you quickly realize most complaints involve how people relate to their fellow shooters. I suspect rhat is the case here. Two guys argue some fine point in the rules for half an hour without realizing that while they are having fun arguing they are angering the rest of the group who just want to shoot. Another guy complains about the tacticool people who are convinced the game is deadly serious training for that never in a lifetime shootout. Again a complaint about people. Others complain about an SO favoring his buddy over a stranger. Again a human complaint.

There are two things all of us should look for in a shooting sport--safety and fun. Since any sport is a human activity we all have an obligation to look out for each other. We, you, me and the guy behind the tree need to make sure everybody participating is safe and is having fun. When that happens the gripes fall away. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you and don't take the game all that seriously. None of us club shooters are going to win a car.

So if I am reading you right... You have never fired a shot in IDPA? You just read the rules, and based on that knowledge and this thread you are ready tell all of us, You have solved world peace!!! Damn!!! Welcome to IDPA you will fit in just fine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rangerdug]

I think IDPA blew it!! The changes in USPSA Carry Optics division rules leave IDPA in the dust.

When the most recent IDPA rule book revisions were made they chose to create a CCD division, but not a division for optical sights. They could have been first to adopt this technology, but the conservative members would not listen. USPSA chose to investigate this use and have now chosen to make it mainstream for the current Production division guns (with a suitable weight limit) and create a Carry Optics division. It is almost impossible to believe that red dot optics will not essentially replace all iron sights for police and military use in the immediate future. The general pistol market will follow quickly. With so many pistols being sold for self defense in this crazy world, owners will want to hit what they are aiming at rather than provoke a fight that they might very well lose.

It is amazing that IDPA proposes to go to a 1point down = 1 second penalty to emphasize the need to avoid collateral damage while ignoring the most effective method to make shots more accurate....optical sights.

I predict the complete collapse of IDPA because gun owners will immediately adopt a sight that is not legal for IDPA competition. For those who say they can still adopt optical sights, I say nonsense. They ignored the obvious technology switch, locked themselves into a 2 year ban on rule changes, do not recognize the fact that any IDPA shooter who tries USPSA will never come back to IDPA and its subjective procedural penalties.

10,000 people carry compact guns on a daily basis. 317 people use carry optics on a daily basis. IDPA made the right call since they were only adding one division. Better to go with one that actually represents real shooters rather than going with the trendy one.

Optics Trendy? It is advancement! Actually a good one. To make a statement that we are a sport that represents real shooters, is immediately countered by the vest. 2 years to re-engage the rules is a lifetime. For what reason? It demonstrates a "trend" of hidebound culture that has become IDPA.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brooke]

"10,000 people carry compact guns on a daily basis. 317 people use carry optics on a daily basis. IDPA made the right call since they were only adding one division. Better to go with one that actually represents real shooters rather than going with the trendy one."

So you don't find it ironic that Joyce gives us a lecture in responsibility about where our shots go right after ignoring the greatest advance in accuracy since guns were invented?

​You don't think USPSA is going to profit immeasurably from jumping on the Carry Optics bandwagon?

Just watch!! Keep acting like a dinosaur and you will become extinct also.

[Jadeslade]

To original poster, no.

[Bart Solo]

You got it right Rangerdug and you immediately proved my point. All the successful shooting games have strong points. All of them have weak points. I have actually shot a lot of them and now I have shot IDPA. It is a different game.

Every shooting game ever invented is first and foremost a game. All games have rules. Except for safety all of the rules are arbitrary. Just have fun within the rules. If you don't like the rules don't shoot the game.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Bart Solo

[rowdyb]

Because the rule book is poorly written, requires a SO to make a lot of subjective calls, generally a poor understanding or the rules, tribal interpretations, the "it's only a local" mindset, it relates to "real life" and it seems I see an illegal stage every match I shoot. timmies versus gamers mentality All of the preceding are real problems when you shoot an idpa match.. Throw all of these weak points together and it can make idpa tedious. And tedium is not fun. a bad SO, a bad stage description and a badly designed stage itself ruin idpa far more than anything else in my opinion.

When people know the rules, fairly implement them, build legal stages that are still fun and everyone keeps their mouths shut then idpa is fun. In comparing the two the things I really like about idpa are:

-locally the matches are done much quicker. and the report scores quickly as well.

-major matches are more frequent than uspsa in my part of the world and much easier to get into.

-props. in idpa i've done more "prop" things that have made the shooting challenge more fun for me. inside boats, cars, garbage cans, work trucks. had my vision obscured my cloth barrier, opaque plastic, lights in my face, dark rooms. I've been handcuffed, seat belted in, strapped to a pole, seated on a 'horse', a motorcycle. shot upside down. all sorts of tugging, stomping, dropping, pushing, manipulate something start positions. for me, these kinds of "wow" stage additions make idpa very fun. and unique.

-idpa is smaller, so it's easier to make friends and see them again if you travel around to shoot.

Edited February 7, 2016 by rowdyb

[Jim Watson]

I had fun yesterday.

Stages were compliant and still offered choice as to approach. Take the hard shots or move more to get easy shots. The only Local Complainer was absent.

The MD is still worried about the viability of IDPA and would go with Something Else if he thought it would be more popular. Attendance was low, we could have accommodated twice the shooters with no delay, three times as many without much trouble.

But the same range already has USPSA, Steel, Rimfire Steel, and SASS. Where do you go next in a fickle market?

Edited February 7, 2016 by Jim Watson

[TonytheTiger]

^ 3 gun.

[KSwift]

The Special Olympics are very fun for some folks.

[Tarkeg]

The Special Olympics are very fun for some folks.

Just when I think I've seen the height of "Anti-IDPA" posts in the IDPA forum, someone comes along and surprises me.

[RePete]

The Special Olympics are very fun for some folks.

Just when I think I've seen the height of "Anti-IDPA" posts in the IDPA forum, someone comes along and surprises me.

Which makes you wonder what event K Swift excels in?

[HCH]

I don't like it as much as USPSA. You may like it more.

[IronArcher]

Recently shot my first match...it was a local club thing, not IDPA sanctioned.

The shoot had a couple stages of IDPA rules/scoring and USPSA rules/scoring.

My take-away:

USPSA stage was a little more "fun" but other than how I did compared to others (via %) I still have little idea as to how I actually shot.
IDPA scoring was MUCH easier to find and gave a more logical representation of my score (This could be due in part to how much data for the USPSA stages was reported).

The IDPA rules were a bit more restrictive...bordering on illogical. I was given 2 Procedurals on one stage. Both clearly violations...neither would have been penalties in USPSA. First was shooting 2 rounds each at 2 targets while moving. I did that, but apparently stopped moving (ran out of room) when I fired another round at 1 of the targets I didn't think I scored well on. The 2nd was reloading a gun with a round in the chamber while behind a table. Leaving the mag on the table in front of you doesn't count as retention apparently (DOH! LOL). of course those 6 seconds of penalties dropped me near the bottom for that stage. I felt I shot the stage logically, but admittedly not within the narrow rules of IDPA. I learned my lesson and shot the next stage clean and without penalty.

For my first shoot, I was kind of upset with myself after that first stage (admittedly, my first stage EVER), so that wasn't much fun, but the following stages were indeed fun... just spent more brain power worrying about the rules than shooting quickly and accurately.

Again, the USPSA stage was fun. More moving, a bit of planning/strategy. Just wish I had some measure of how well I did at that stage other than 60.3% of the score of the guy who "won" that stage (Limited vs. me in production). Top production guy ("A" Class shooter) shot 83.4% of the winners score. So did I shoot 72.3% of the class winners score? If he wasn't there, the next Prod shooter was 71.6% so I shot 84.2% of his score? I guess I don't like my score changing depending on who else shot. Unfortunately, there was no report of points/sec. I guess that would have been nice.

To ME, the perfect match would be USPSA rules and IDPA scoring. But I had enough fun that I will continue to shoot both. So in the end, Yes, IDPA is fun!

[v1911]

Shot a match last weekend that was USPSA stage design IDPA scoring. It was a lot of fun.

[Beastly]

Recently shot my first match...it was a local club thing, not IDPA sanctioned.

The shoot had a couple stages of IDPA rules/scoring and USPSA rules/scoring.

My take-away:

USPSA stage was a little more "fun" but other than how I did compared to others (via %) I still have little idea as to how I actually shot.

IDPA scoring was MUCH easier to find and gave a more logical representation of my score (This could be due in part to how much data for the USPSA stages was reported).

The IDPA rules were a bit more restrictive...bordering on illogical. I was given 2 Procedurals on one stage. Both clearly violations...neither would have been penalties in USPSA. First was shooting 2 rounds each at 2 targets while moving. I did that, but apparently stopped moving (ran out of room) when I fired another round at 1 of the targets I didn't think I scored well on. The 2nd was reloading a gun with a round in the chamber while behind a table. Leaving the mag on the table in front of you doesn't count as retention apparently (DOH! LOL). of course those 6 seconds of penalties dropped me near the bottom for that stage. I felt I shot the stage logically, but admittedly not within the narrow rules of IDPA. I learned my lesson and shot the next stage clean and without penalty.

For my first shoot, I was kind of upset with myself after that first stage (admittedly, my first stage EVER), so that wasn't much fun, but the following stages were indeed fun... just spent more brain power worrying about the rules than shooting quickly and accurately.

Again, the USPSA stage was fun. More moving, a bit of planning/strategy. Just wish I had some measure of how well I did at that stage other than 60.3% of the score of the guy who "won" that stage (Limited vs. me in production). Top production guy ("A" Class shooter) shot 83.4% of the winners score. So did I shoot 72.3% of the class winners score? If he wasn't there, the next Prod shooter was 71.6% so I shot 84.2% of his score? I guess I don't like my score changing depending on who else shot. Unfortunately, there was no report of points/sec. I guess that would have been nice.

To ME, the perfect match would be USPSA rules and IDPA scoring. But I had enough fun that I will continue to shoot both. So in the end, Yes, IDPA is fun!

If I didn't get time, points, A/B/C/etc. and HF in a USPSA stage report I would be pissed. That's a failing of the MD, not USPSA - % of top shooter for division can't be calculated without those important details and not reporting them to the shooter is crazy.

[Jim Watson]

Common outlaw format. No complicated IDPA rules of engagement, no complicated USPSA scoring. Indicates lack of commitment.

I think you ought to be able to figure out one or the other and be a Joiner.

[IronArcher]

Not being snarky here, but if it's that common, why doesn't someone just start an organization based on those rules?

PASS seems close, but still has the fishing vest...

[jhgtyre]

Shot a match last weekend that was USPSA stage design IDPA scoring. It was a lot of fun.

Before USPSA had a Single Stack division Rio Salado had a single stack match that used this basic premise. It was a lot of fun and a well attended match. Sadly it went away with the advent of Single Stack division.

[Jim Watson]

Not being snarky here, but if it's that common, why doesn't someone just start an organization based on those rules?

To quote a usually reliable source (Me!) there is no commitment to do anything but cater to the local audience.

Trivia: Once upon a time, IPSC was being considered as a "demonstration sport" at the Olympics. They were going to use Time Plus scoring so the spectators could follow what was going on in real time.

[Beastly]

Outlaw match rules can get really retarded - varying from stage to stage and even within stages (I'm not joking).

I skip these now and just go train.