Proposed USPSA Production Division Changes

[Fuelie777]

No changes to the current rules. It is to loose as it is.

[Nghthwk1911]

The Tacticool Timmy division... Division requirements. Shooters must be fully dressed in 5.11 gear, head to toe. at least one spiderco knife must be on shooter during the CF.

Shoot Open Minor, that way it is as close to your CQB Airsoft Force on Force training.

this is not a troll, this is just plan old observation. I don't think we need another division, if we did it would be to separate the EAA, Tanfo, and CZ, and other Metal frame Production pistols that weight in over 35oz into a separate category for scoring. Production Heavy if you will.

[Dustysa4]

I agree that things should be left the same, or maybe even tightened up a bit.

[RaylanGivens]

I like the Production rules as they are...

If they had to change, I'd say make them more similar to IPSC's rules... Not farther away...

[waktasz]

Hopefully they are only bringing them up in the meeting in order to squash them. All terrible ideas.

[JGus]

I can't tell if you are being serious or not.. On the off chance you are serious, if you think reloading is the most difficult aspect of the game you may want to reconsider how you play the game.

I like Production at 10 rounds. Doing reloads during a stage adds to the skill level. Where is the skill or challenge when you can shoot an entire stage with a single magazine?

I say make them all 10 rounders. Level the playing field a bit.

I am serious, but I never said "reloading is the most difficult aspect of the game" I said it adds to the skill level.

I like Production because it requires more skill and practice to be really good at. Can't run giant mags, so you have to practice reloads. Can't get by with sloppy shots like you can with major power factor so you have to be accurate. No giant magwells so reloads have to be exact. No red dots so you have to use the front sight. But thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.

I agree with hops.

[JGus]

Then clearly in your eye's revolover shooters are the most skilled. We do the most reloads, and our reloads are much harder than yours. Magwell, what's that? And now we've all been forced into minor scoring. Only 8 shots, for 8 shot array's. Don't miss. Iron sights, and long heavy triggers. What could take more skill?

It's good to hear from a pistol shooter who thinks as highly of revolver shooters as you do. Thank you.

I don't shoot revo division, but I would admit it would be damn tough! As you stated above, there is a lot going on while shooting a stage with a revolver, along with every shot being DA. A good revo shooter has to be very skilled.

[waktasz]

Shooting a USPSA course with a bow and arrow would be hard too, but it doesn't mean anyone should do it.

[hops]

Shooting a USPSA course with a bow and arrow would be hard too, but it doesn't mean anyone should do it.

Would i be limited to 10 arrows in my quiver?

[AZGunut]

I agree leave things the way they are. If anything I think IPSC and USPSA should pretty much share all common equipment rules.

[StealthyBlagga]

While we are wildly speculating about new divisions, how about this for an idea: Compact Division. Same gun rules as current Limited, but must fit in a small box about the size of a Glock 19 or even a Glock 26. Same holster rules as Production. Winnah Winnah Chicken Dinnah

[SWprotected]

I think the rules are fine as is for the most part, I don't agree with having to shoot a box stock gun or whatever IPSC does I like tinkering and trying to make my pistol better. I do think production should have a division weight limit not a gun by gun limit. Even if a guy shooting a polymer gun uses a tungsten guide rod he is still way lighter than a CZ or Tanfo.

[ttolliver]

While the divisions are pretty solid today, I think a Production Optics division would fill a growing and valuable niche for older eyes. I know someone's going to point out we have an optics division already, it's called Open. But you have to admit that Open comes along with a ton of baggage that isn't for everyone.

[TriggerFreeze]

So when would we hear what they decide at the BOD meeting? And if they decide to change the rules, when would the change take effect?

[L3324temp]

Production should be left alone.

[jdphotoguy]

Production Optics doesn't sound like a good idea. When I wanted to shoot Open and did not feel like spending $3,000 on an Open gun. Took my M&P 9L, added a comp and Deltapoint, then shot Open minor and loved it.

Edited September 2, 2014 by jdphotoguy

[razorfish]

Those "Heavy" production guns come with their fair share of disadvantages too.

First you have the Double Action long pull first shot... After some training you might get accustomed too it but the advantage goes to the lighter striker fire, single action pistols on the first shot. Note that there's at least one double action shot required per stage using these "heavy" guns.

Next, the guns are just plain heavy. Sure the extra weight helps control perceived recoil and muzzle flip, but whipping around a heavy pistol on a USPSA course takes some additional time. Whipping around a 41 ounce pistol between targets will never be as fast as a light plastic pistol.

As we all know it's the shooter not the gun and I'm not completely sold on the idea that heavier is much of an advantage with regard to USPSA. I say leave production alone.

[Nik Habicht]

Those "Heavy" production guns come with their fair share of disadvantages too.

First you have the Double Action long pull first shot... After some training you might get accustomed too it but the advantage goes to the lighter striker fire, single action pistols on the first shot. Note that there's at least one double action shot required per stage using these "heavy" guns.

Really? At least one DA shot is required? I don't think so -- this isn't IPSC. You're free to cock the hammer after the buzzer goes off.....

[zhunter]

And then there are the unloaded starts which are SA first shot. At a 12 Stage large match, you would likely have a total of about 9 DA shots out of 250+ shots. I'd call that a pretty good trade to have a ration of SA to DA of over 27 to 1

But that's just me

[razorfish]

Really? At least one DA shot is required? I don't think so -- this isn't IPSC. You're free to cock the hammer after the buzzer goes off.....

Hmm... I suppose you're right but if I have to cock my gun after the buzzer goes off the advantage would still go to the plastic pistols.

Forget about unloaded starts. When both the plastic and the "heavy" guns have to load a magazine and rack the slide they are indeed equal.

If you look at my avatar you'll notice I shoot a CZ SP-01 (a "heavy" gun) so I feel that for me anyway these "heavy" guns have some advantage. I changed from an M&P Pro (a plastic gun) to the CZ. Like many before me, I struggle and continue to struggle with the double action first shot and moving the extra weight between targets. My point is that although for me I still see an advantage, there are still some advantages to using the "plastic" gun. With that in mind there's definitely not enough of an advantage (or difference) to warrant an additional USPSA Production division. (My response was in reference to Post # 52 which mentions creating a Production Heavy Division)

[Trident]

I don't agree with PO in production, bad idea, but I do support Trigger changes and grip stippling. Stupid to have to use sandpaper when stippling does the same thing plus it makes for being able to use the same setup as EDC. Not sure on grip reductions. Thats seems too much like full modification in a "stock" production class.

[CSStreett]

Production should be left as "Production". If you want to shoot a Modified pistol, shoot L10.

[Noximus03]

Trigger rule change- yes, bout time too....

Grip reduction- sure. I hate finger grooves, but I've been dealing with them for so long, it wouldnt really matter much.

Optics rule change- not no, but f**k no. You want to shoot optics, go to open. That's why it exists.

Play around with the rules of Production much more than already has been done and it'll be Lim 10 minor, nothing more or less.

[Rolex]

Trigger- Hell Ya- Stipple- Hell Ya, Optics, Hell NO-

Get an open gun!

[zhunter]

Stipple- hell No

Trigger- hell No

Production Optics = Hell Yes

Two sides to everything