The Antichrome Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Right because EVERYONE that is shooting nat's has facebook. Brilliant way to communicate with the masses Thats like saying...yeah everybody wants to check b.s. for match talk and info....not everyone wants to go to forums/facebook etc to find info....an email would have been better but it is what it is I had been checking the uspsa website everyday, looking for self-squadding to open up, and looking for updates to the nationals page...thats how I 'found' the shooters packet. It is strange that it wouldnt be announced on the front page...and emailed to competitors, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I would like to see the Narionals on the Eastern hemisphere again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prov1x Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Right because EVERYONE that is shooting nat's has facebook. Brilliant way to communicate with the massesThats like saying...yeah everybody wants to check b.s. for match talk and info....not everyone wants to go to forums/facebook etc to find info....an email would have been better but it is what it is I had been checking the uspsa website everyday, looking for self-squadding to open up, and looking for updates to the nationals page...thats how I 'found' the shooters packet. It is strange that it wouldnt be announced on the front page...and emailed to competitors, etc... i know, thats why I said an email would have been better but its out now so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Antichrome Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Most divisions 'deserve' their own stand alone nationals (i.e. Limited, Prod, SS) If Revo only has 17 shooters, does it really need a national championship? Phil tried an idea out, and it worked...119 Revo shooters. However, a bunch of stand alone nationals is a tremendous burden. Just getting the RO crews sorted out must be a nightmare. So, I think that combined nationals will be used sometimes, and stand alone matches in other years. There is also the world shoot to consider. BTW, 2012 Nationals drew 1178 entries 2013 has 1093 not including Production Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) Match Name: 2012 USPSA L-P-R Nationals Match Date: 10/14/12 Results Uploaded: 10/17/12 - 1:36 PM Host Club USPSA VICE PRESIDENT (US02) Organization: USPSA Additional Info: Show Stage Profiles Division GM M A B C D U X Total Limited 27 46 49 82 31 12 14 261 Open 1 1 2 Production 21 28 28 44 27 5 10 163 Revolver 6 4 4 2 1 17 Total 54 78 81 128 58 18 26 443 Match Name: 2012 USPSA Open - Limited 10 Nationals Match Date: 10/18/12 Results Uploaded: 10/20/12 - 9:47 PM Host Club USPSA VICE PRESIDENT (US02) Organization: USPSA Additional Info: Show Stage Profiles Division GM M A B C D U X Total Limited 10 11 19 23 28 21 4 12 118 Open 41 68 63 75 37 10 13 307 Total 52 87 86 103 58 14 25 425 868 for 2012 Match Name: 2013 Limited Nationals Match Date: 9/23/13 Results Uploaded: 9/25/13 - 10:31 PM Host Club USPSA PRESIDENT (US01) Organization: USPSA Additional Info: Show Stage Profiles Division GM M A B C D U X Total Limited 36 41 49 63 38 3 16 246 Total 36 41 49 63 38 3 16 246 Match Name: 2013 Open-L10 Nationals Match Date: 9/27/13 Results Uploaded: 9/29/13 - 8:17 PM Host Club USPSA PRESIDENT (US01) Organization: USPSA Additional Info: Show Stage Profiles Division GM M A B C D U X Total Limited 10 11 9 11 26 20 3 17 98 Open 40 61 61 60 27 3 6 258 Total 51 70 72 86 47 6 23 356 2013 602 So too compare them take out rev and prod and 2012 had 686 and 2013 602 for same divisions since single stack has been stand alone for awhile Edited September 30, 2013 by JakeMartens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) well that cut and paste was a major fail 2012 Limited 261 L10 118 Open 307 2013 Limited 246 L10 98 Open 258 Edited September 30, 2013 by JakeMartens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Antichrome Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 well that cut and paste was a major fail 2012 Limited 261 L10 118 Open 307 2013 Limited 246 L10 98 Open 258 So we lost 84 shooters by moving from Vegas to Utah. But gained 102 by moving Revo to Barry. We also gained 62 SS shooters without moving. It'll be interesting to see how big the Production match is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 well that cut and paste was a major fail 2012 Limited 261 L10 118 Open 307 2013 Limited 246 L10 98 Open 258 So we lost 84 shooters by moving from Vegas to Utah. But gained 102 by moving Revo to Barry. We also gained 62 SS shooters without moving. It'll be interesting to see how big the Production match is. yeah I would like to see how big production is they sent a fb message out that there was still room for the production match so it is not sold out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 In the old days(not the good old days) the Nationals were 5 days long(M-F), AM-PM scheduling, one full day off, and around 24 stages. This was done twice a year, Open and Limited, a match had 435 slots for each. Nothing about the match was known until registration, if you were caught at the range before the start you didn't shoot it. Also the matches generally lost money. It will be interesting to see what this years matches have cost us this year. Shooting one Nationals, pick your Division is a good thing, it should be this way every World Shoot year. It will be the closest most shooters will get to shooting a Match like the WS. As to being watered down that happens at every club match, Sectional, and Area Match right now(one of the problems with too many Divisions). The Nationals can't be conformed/molded to fit everybody who wants to shoot them, shoot what you can when you can. Rich Rich reminds me that there's something else interesting about a five day nationals versus a three day: It's harder to shoot that many half-days in a row and maintain focus.... It's like shooting 5 club matches in a row while trying to remain consistent, and shoot each one perfectly.... Nationals should be harder than the largest area match.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 well that cut and paste was a major fail 2012 Limited 261 L10 118 Open 307 2013 Limited 246 L10 98 Open 258 So we lost 84 shooters by moving from Vegas to Utah. But gained 102 by moving Revo to Barry.We also gained 62 SS shooters without moving. It'll be interesting to see how big the Production match is. yeah I would like to see how big production isthey sent a fb message out that there was still room for the production match so it is not sold out Last I heard there were about 300 registered for the Production match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Good, I would think that it would similar numbers to ss nats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkm Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Not going to contribute to the onslaught of speculation and stats. But for those that had asked about the facility in St. George it was fantastic, plenty of room and not too far from town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) Rich reminds me that there's something else interesting about a five day nationals versus a three day: It's harder to shoot that many half-days in a row and maintain focus.... It's like shooting 5 club matches in a row while trying to remain consistent, and shoot each one perfectly.... Nationals should be harder than the largest area match.... This is a good point. As joe sixpack, I'm not sure how i feel about the half-day format (after shooting it for the first time last week). It sure takes alot more of my time, but it gives me a LOT more time to preview and plan all the stages. I'd probably rather shoot 10-stages/day for 3 days and be done with it. Doesn't really matter what I think tho, the match should be appropriate for a national championship, not for my walter-mitty fantasies of rubbing shoulders with the big boys. More importantly, as an RO who is not yet retired, a 5 day event is not really feasible for me. I am probably going to use the same amount of time and money next year to do area 1 and 4 or 5 sectionals. Edited September 30, 2013 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yagi Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Will it be expensive and time consuming for USPSA to send out an "electronic" voting system? 2.5 days vs. 3.days vs. 5 days ; combine back to back ; vegas or st. george or tulsa, etc.etc.???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Having done both I actually prefer the 1/2 day formats for the reasons you cited as well as it makes for shorter days. I know there are just as many compelling reasons not to do it but the shear enormity of trying to put on 5 separate Nationals appears to be too much. Asking members to vote really isn't an option because those doing the voting are not the ones who will have to try and make it work. I had to give up my slot at this year's Nationals but I look forward to next year's event where I'll get to shoot 5 1/2 days in a row ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murkish Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 5 days shooting, 7 nights in a hotel, meals........I am thinking that is going to be a high price for a lot of shooters. Very good point, Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I'm just guessing but wouldn't the entry fee for a 30 stage match be about $400+? Using this years entry fee divided by number of stages (actual stages) comes out to $14.04 per stage. Hopefully I'm wrong but that's a pretty hefty entry fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Like I mentioned earlier, make it a 16-20 stage match shot in 2 days. Make it one division only (not sure if the shooting the same match in a different division holds water when you look previous B2B nationals) and you can be done it 2 days and maybe even volunteer to RO another 2 days. Get the same amount of RO's as you would for a 30 stage match that way you can rotate them out a little so they aren't killed. Plus that gets more shooters the opportunity to get a slot. 16-20 quality stages over 2 days seems more appealing than 30 so-so stages over a week just so we can say we shot 30 stages in 5 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 5 straight days of all day officiating seems like it would be brutal, even if everything went perfectly, which it often doesn't. But maybe I'm a pansy. Hopefully they asked some of the folks that have been working the last few nationals. Maybe it wouldn't really be any worse than 3 days, rest day, 3 more days like at the b2b matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Will it be expensive and time consuming for USPSA to send out an "electronic" voting system? 2.5 days vs. 3.days vs. 5 days ; combine back to back ; vegas or st. george or tulsa, etc.etc.???? The only vote that counts is Strader (USPSA President). His email is "president @ uspsa.org". He does typically respond to e-mails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 What about SS-revolver and production same week / Limited the same week as L10 and open? 2weeks total is still a lot. I don't know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarnburg Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) well that cut and paste was a major fail 2012 Limited 261 L10 118 Open 307 2013 Limited 246 L10 98 Open 258 So we lost 84 shooters by moving from Vegas to Utah. But gained 102 by moving Revo to Barry. We also gained 62 SS shooters without moving. It'll be interesting to see how big the Production match is. Did we really "gain" any shooters? The better statement would be that we gave shooters a opportunity to shoot a division that may not have been their first choice in a combined format. The real question is what is what is nationals supposed to be? A once a year event that participants train, in a specific division, for entire year to prepare for; or is it the flavor of the month that allows someone to change gun and rig and compete. Scott Edited September 30, 2013 by sarnburg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Speaking for myself only, I could do 10 stages in a day for one day, but for two or three days in a row, I'd be dragging badly, worse if the weather is bad. Sure, it's considerably less than just ten minutes of shooting for the day, and I practice much more than that per session, but it's all the standing around, or walking back and forth on each stage helping to tape and reset (and I do my share), that gets the mileage and wear and tear up there. For me, part of the fun of a Nationals is getting to watch the top shooters do their thing. Half day formats let me do that on my downtime, or rest, or browse the vendors' tent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I think all this speculation is fun and there are some interesting ideas in here. At the end of the day we will have to wait for the match to be able to determine if a combined Nationals is a good or bad thing. I know a lot of people have been pushing for one big match for a long time (me included), I think it could be a game-changer, it would be less of a drag on our sponsors. If they bring in a pre-match (and I sincerely hope that they do) then I would expect some RO's that have never been able to compete at Nationals will be putting their name on the list as they will get to shoot the match for free. A pre-match would also allow the other match staff to compete and work the main event. I have not been able to compete at Nationals for two years now, I'd like to be able to do it next year and still provide the coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oak hill Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I think all this speculation is fun and there are some interesting ideas in here. At the end of the day we will have to wait for the match to be able to determine if a combined Nationals is a good or bad thing. I know a lot of people have been pushing for one big match for a long time (me included), I think it could be a game-changer, it would be less of a drag on our sponsors. If they bring in a pre-match (and I sincerely hope that they do) then I would expect some RO's that have never been able to compete at Nationals will be putting their name on the list as they will get to shoot the match for free. A pre-match would also allow the other match staff to compete and work the main event. I have not been able to compete at Nationals for two years now, I'd like to be able to do it next year and still provide the coverage. Good point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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