2014 Nationals - Back to Combined?

[jrbet83]

Having a range big enough to do a nationals is only half of it, the other half, is the range actually wanting to do it.

[EricS]

for those that did not come because of location, thank you, my son was able to walk on and shoot some awesome stages with me.

this range is really nice. close to town and the staff was amazing.

THANK YOU STAFF

You're welcome Juan. Glad you had a good time and fantastic that your son got to shoot! Hope you two will come visit and shoot with us again.

[Nik Habicht]

I think it comes down to what USPSA wants a National Championship to be. Do you want an end of the year get together where you can see old buddies that you only see once a year, have a short day of shooting where you slap each other on the back and catch a beer after a half day of shooting, then do it over again tomorrow? Or, do you want to see the best compete against the best.

We don't need a glorified club match with watered down competition. I want to see TGO go up against Max. I want to see Ben shoot against TGO, and Nils, etc.

If you have a combined National Championship and Ben wins production, Nils wins Limited, TGO wins Lim 10 and Max wins Open and neither faced each other, do you really have a National Championship at all?

'Cause those four are the only GMs capable of winning a National Championship? This ain't 2004 (The last combined big Nationals) anymore.....

The field's pretty deep in Open, Limited, and Production -- and some of the top shooters aren't as likely to either cross over, or be as dominant in a second division.....

Back in '04 in Limited the top 6 finishers were Rob Leatham, Travis Tomasie, Mike Voight, Manny Bragg, Taran Butler and Todd Jarrett. TGO won by 3%.....

In Open Eric Grauffel, Max Michel, Chris Tilley, J.J. Racaza, Adam Popplewell and Jojo Vidanes were the top 6. The spread was wider than in limited -- 6th place was ~89%

Production was 3.5 years old and was dominated by Sevigny, with Angus Hobdell coming in second at ~ 89%.....

After ten years, I think it would be cool to see another "big" national match with all divisions under roof.....

[Nik Habicht]

You would shoot the match in 2 days and that way you could shoot a second or even 3rd division.

Nope, not possible under current rules.....

[motosapiens]

I don't know how easy or fun it will be to have the staff shoot in a 5-day match, and I know for some people, that is an important consideration if they are thinking about working the match. For some of us it may make more sense to try to do nationals every other year, and do more area and sectional matches in the off years. With that same 5 days of vacation and some weekends, I could go to 2 or 3 area matches and 3 or 4 sectionals.

I have no doubt that any match in st george will be of the highest quality, however.

[Strick]

You would shoot the match in 2 days and that way you could shoot a second or even 3rd division.

Nope, not possible under current rules.....

RM could make an exception.

And I can see it can't be done, afterall the LTD match was vastly different than the L10/open match.

[Carmoney]

I think Strader deserves credit for (1) getting the dates for the 2014 Nats out plenty early, and (2) being willing to try something different. Most people who want to shoot a week-long Nationals can find the time and funds to make that happen, especially with this much advance notice.

Personally, I would much prefer the match be in Las Vegas because of the incredible variety of non-shooting entertainment options that venue has to offer. I know Zion Canyon is a scenic area and all that stuff, but a week in Utah sounds like dullsville to an action junky like me. I never understand people complaining about matches being held in Vegas. I understand some people don't like casinos and gambling and drinking and titty bars--OK fine, you can steer completely away from all that stuff and drive straight to the Best Western out by the range, and then hike the mountains and hit the museums during your off-time. Vegas has more to see and do than anywhere else that has a shooting range of sufficient size, and that is still true even if you never step foot inside a casino.

But anyway, I still say kudos to Phil for mixing it up.

[justaute]

Agreed. Strader does deserve a lot of credit, akin to his organization of 2013 Production Nationals.

I think Strader deserves credit for (1) getting the dates for the 2014 Nats out plenty early, and (2) being willing to try something different. Most people who want to shoot a week-long Nationals can find the time and funds to make that happen, especially with this much advance notice.

Personally, I would much prefer the match be in Las Vegas because of the incredible variety of non-shooting entertainment options that venue has to offer. I know Zion Canyon is a scenic area and all that stuff, but a week in Utah sounds like dullsville to an action junky like me. I never understand people complaining about matches being held in Vegas. I understand some people don't like casinos and gambling and drinking and titty bars--OK fine, you can steer completely away from all that stuff and drive straight to the Best Western out by the range, and then hike the mountains and hit the museums during your off-time. Vegas has more to see and do than anywhere else that has a shooting range of sufficient size, and that is still true even if you never step foot inside a casino.

But anyway, I still say kudos to Phil for mixing it up.

[sperman]

But anyway, I still say kudos to Phil for mixing it up.

Over a 3 year span we will have shot a traditional B2B, a B2B with Production and Revolver also getting their own match, and next year one huge combined nationals. I would say at the end of that period, we should have a pretty good idea of what people like, and what works out best. I like switching it up from time to time, even if it means I can't attend.

[38SuperDub]

You know production stand alone was announced in the summer BOD 2012 minutes right?

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[shtr3]

Why not hold them at Frostproof, they seem big enough to hold a nationals event?

[beltjones]

I think this is a good decision if for no other reason than someone other than our President will get to be the MD of the match. Hopefully it's Ken Nelson.

I'm sure this will bring out the apologists, but to have our President (which is an elected and salaried position) take a week off from his duties of MDing Production Nationals is nothing short of a gross dereliction of duty.

We don't have stages approved. We don't have squadding available. There hasn't been a shooter's packet sent out in either paper or electronic format. The registration information is nonexistent. The only reason we have an actual round count is that someone OTHER than the MD released it. With so little settled with so little time before the match it's quite unbelievable that the MD would take a week's vacation to shoot a couple of matches just for fun. Oh, and by the way, this isn't a volunteer MD like many matches, we actually pay him to MD nationals matches. It's a joke.

Edited September 29, 2013 by beltjones

[38SuperDub]

I'll take the $55,000 a year and MD nationals next year - DuBois for Prez

[Steve_P]

Definitely not being an apologist, but there is a shooters packet posted on the uspsa nationals sight.

It lists squadding as opening on thursday the 3rd.

I can't wait for the match.

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Edited September 29, 2013 by Steve_P

[38SuperDub]

Well thats impressive - guess I missed the email saying me they released that info over the weekend. Anyone else get that email?

[Prov1x]

It wasnt an email, it was posted on the nationals facebook page.

[38SuperDub]

Right because EVERYONE that is shooting nat's has facebook. Brilliant way to communicate with the masses

[jrbet83]

Why not hold them at Frostproof, they seem big enough to hold a nationals event?

Are you the range master at frostproof?

[JakeMartens]

Why not hold them at Frostproof, they seem big enough to hold a nationals event?

Are you the range master at frostproof?

They are holding the World Shoot, the Pro-Am, Steel Challenge, Florida Open, Monster Match....

[jrbet83]

Why not hold them at Frostproof, they seem big enough to hold a nationals event?

Are you the range master at frostproof?

They are holding the World Shoot, the Pro-Am, Steel Challenge, Florida Open, Monster Match....

Are you trying to make my point for me?

[JakeMartens]

Are you trying to make my point for me?

No

The opposite, looks like their plate is pretty full already

[jrbet83]

Are you trying to make my point for me?

No

The opposite, looks like their plate is pretty full already

Okay, we're on the same page, because that was my point too. That and the fact that if you're not afflicted with the range, you probably shouldn't be throwing it's name out there. Because there's a very strong possibility they're not interested in holding the match. I know this came up last year when st. George was named as nationals site and people didn't think it should stay on the west coast, until more info came out and there weren't any other available and viable locations.

Nationals is a TON of work, most ranges don't have the time to devote to it, especially when you consider they already have big matches on their plate ie area, state, sectionals etc

[38SuperDub]

Sorta like Tulsa was announced a calendar year before any paperwork waa signed with the range (or the range even knew about it)?

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[Prov1x]

Right because EVERYONE that is shooting nat's has facebook. Brilliant way to communicate with the masses

Thats like saying...yeah everybody wants to check b.s. for match talk and info....not everyone wants to go to forums/facebook etc to find info....an email would have been better but it is what it is

Edited September 30, 2013 by Prov1x

[RIIID]

In the old days(not the good old days) the Nationals were 5 days long(M-F), AM-PM scheduling, one full day off, and around 24 stages. This was done twice a year, Open and Limited, a match had 435 slots for each. Nothing about the match was known until registration, if you were caught at the range before the start you didn't shoot it. Also the matches generally lost money. It will be interesting to see what this years matches have cost us this year.

Shooting one Nationals, pick your Division is a good thing, it should be this way every World Shoot year. It will be the closest most shooters will get to shooting a Match like the WS. As to being watered down that happens at every club match, Sectional, and Area Match right now(one of the problems with too many Divisions).

The Nationals can't be conformed/molded to fit everybody who wants to shoot them, shoot what you can when you can.

Rich