Speak up or hold tongue when RO's use the wrong commands

[euanga]

When I hear "The shooter indicates ready" I generally reply with "The shooter indicates the RO does NOT know proper range commands"

It is not popular but it does get most ROs to correct their script.

Wow if you did that to me I'd likely hand you the timer and walk off.

On any given month I may have;

Done stats/reg for a 100 person idpa match

Shared so duties at another idpa match

Shared so duties at a weekly idpa indoor match

Worked on stage design for various idpa matches

Ro'd at several uspsa matches

Done stats reg for uspsa

Designed stages for uspsa

Worked on match admin for uspsa

Oh yeah and sometimes I shoot. Attitude like that at a local match for a minor mistake is what has me wondering why I bust my ass to help other shooters have a good time.

[Pete Whyte]

euanga..........RIGHT-ON

[kampr]

When I hear "The shooter indicates ready" I generally reply with "The shooter indicates the RO does NOT know proper range commands"

It is not popular but it does get most ROs to correct their script.

Wow if you did that to me I'd likely say, Stop. Unload and show clear. If clear, hammer down, holster. Range is clear. Then hand you the timer and walk off.

Fixed it for you, just sayin.........

[kevin c]

Really, it's a volunteer sport. Busting the RO's balls for not using the latest commands (hell, I know two or three previously official versions, and will slip on occasion) is not constructive.

Yes, it's definitely worthwhile to use the correct commands Yes it's important to correct those RO's who don't use them. But it's not worth driving away people who are willing to help by riding them down.

Maybe try approaching it in a less judgemental way?:

"Slide forward? You've been around as long as I have if you remember that! Y'know, the SC told me the other day I should use the latest commands, since the newer shooters haven't heard the originals..."

"Stoke that smoke pole? That's funny right there. Y'know, Suzuki over there doesn't speak much English. I think he only knows the official commands..."

You don't even have to do it personally (it might just screw with your own head and match). Mention it to the MD or the SC, and then forget about it.

[lppd4]

Really, it's a volunteer sport. Busting the RO's balls for not using the latest commands (hell, I know two or three previously official versions, and will slip on occasion) is not constructive.

Yes, it's definitely worthwhile to use the correct commands Yes it's important to correct those RO's who don't use them. But it's not worth driving away people who are willing to help by riding them down.

Maybe try approaching it in a less judgemental way?:

"Slide forward? You've been around as long as I have if you remember that! Y'know, the SC told me the other day I should use the latest commands, since the newer shooters haven't heard the originals..."

"Stoke that smoke pole? That's funny right there. Y'know, Suzuki over there doesn't speak much English. I think he only knows the official commands..."

You don't even have to do it personally (it might just screw with your own head and match). Mention it to the MD or the SC, and then forget about it.

I think too many people think we need to run monthly matches like the nationals. Isn't the goal to attract new shooters? I think a bunch of stiff shirts is counter productive. Notice I did not say we should be lax on safety before someone jumps me on that. One example a new shooter shows up and has a Glock 22c, can't afford a new barrel yet, we let him shoot production or limited by letting him choose how many he wants to load in his mags. Not like he's beating someone to the prize table ( there is no prize table) becasue his gun should put him in open. Probably should use proper range commands especially with new shooters but good grief calling someone out on it or refusing to let them RO you? Same applies to heated arguments over doubles, A or C hit etc. but we have all seen it done. It is supposed to be a fun day a way to relax, fellowship with your friends.

[Chris iliff]

I believe range command corrections should be done in a private manner one on one. I won't bring it up during the act of shooting, but after I am finished, I will quietly tell the RO what the correct commands are and why they are important.

Seems to work fairly well.

Da Man!

[stick]

I personally don't care at all about the difference between 'are you ready' and 'shooter ready' or 'range is safe' and 'range is clear', especially if someone else is willing to pitch in with the RO duties so I don't have to do it all the time. I would prefer not to hear nonsense like 'shooter indicates ready' that has no place in either sport.

Perfectly said

[wide45]

...One example a new shooter shows up and has a Glock 22c, can't afford a new barrel yet, we let him shoot production or limited by letting him choose how many he wants to load in his mags. Not like he's beating someone to the prize table ( there is no prize table) becasue his gun should put him in open....

Since it does not matter which division he is not winning, put him in open where his equipment belongs. You are not hurting him by following the rules.

[CHA-LEE]

Is it really that hard to read, memorize and use the correct range commands? These are not complicated phrases to remember or recite. A very minimal amount of effort is needed to update your usage of the correct range commands. As I said before, there is no valid excuse for not keeping up to date with the rules and using the correct range commands.

If you get called out for using the incorrect range commands its being done for a reason. Consider it a learning lesson and put forth some effort to change your habits. Congenitally failing to use the correct range commands for whatever reason is nothing more than a lame excuse. Man up and fix the issue.

[ROY NEAL]

It really is simple. Learn the correct range commands and give them only the proper range commands. This goes for the GM shooters who are only expecting to hear what you need to say to them so they can concentrate on what they should be doing all the way down to the D class shooter who is hoping to just get through the 32 round field course without blowing by a target or breaking the 180. The point being is that the competitor has enough on their plate at that moment-don't add to it by giving them the incorrect range commands. Don't screw with their Mojo before they shoot. I was guilty of this like many others as I would just be friendly with shooters till Carl Provan took over the RO's at another club for a major match. He stressed the importance of only saying what was needed and being fair to each shooter. He got that from Perry Wilson and they are both right.

If your a certified RO/CRO you should be using the proper range commands. I totally get the language issue. We have a number of foreign competitors at my club so I have stressed the importance of using only the proper commands so we won't have any issues. Are we perfect? No, but we do try and the professionalism of my staff only adds to the overall shooting experience of our competitors.

At a Level II or III match, there is no excuse for using the wrong range commands. If getting that done right is too much to ask of an individual, then maybe they shouldn't work in that capacity. The match will always need help in other area's and the Match Director would love any help they are willing to provide.

We use our weekly practice sessions to work new RO's into the groove getting practice running shooters. It really helps as they gain experience and just get comfortable with all the commands and responsibilities. Even at practice, we are trying to get the commands right and no more of the "Poke it, Stroke it and Prepare to Smoke it" commands that might have been uttered in the past. Or heaven help us, "Gas it up Bubba" make ready commands.

My biggest pet peeve is the "Give me a nod when your ready". At that point, I will unload and show clear since the RO clearly doesn't have a clue and doesn't know that they shouldn't say that. It might be a little thing but it isn't correct and this is something that is easily correctable.

[Garyg19]

No disrespect to Roy, but I am so going to submit a motion to the USPSA BOD to make "Gas it up Bubba" one of the official range commands.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Garyg19

[frag316]

I think Jay Worden said his favorite range command was something like "Pull it, stick it, stroke it, and smoke it."

I try my best to give the proper commands from the USPSA rulebook. I fumble sometimes, because "Load and make ready" was the command given when I was a n00b many, many years ago.

The only thing I'll say is that doing things a certain way will make that a habit. If you try some variation of "pull it, stick it, etc." at a Level II or higher match, you won't be asked back. I've only RO'd one Level II match, but I plan to do more in the future. I'd like to be asked back, so I try to get it right all the time.

As far as correcting the other ROs? Meh. I might give the guy a hard time, like the one time someone told me to "Load and make ready" and I asked him if we were remaking "Triple Tap," but other than that, I'll let it slide--as long as all of the safety rules are observed.

[JayWord]

I think Jay Worden said his favorite range command was something like "Pull it, stick it, stroke it, and smoke it."

I try my best to give the proper commands from the USPSA rulebook. I fumble sometimes, because "Load and make ready" was the command given when I was a n00b many, many years ago.

The only thing I'll say is that doing things a certain way will make that a habit. If you try some variation of "pull it, stick it, etc." at a Level II or higher match, you won't be asked back. I've only RO'd one Level II match, but I plan to do more in the future. I'd like to be asked back, so I try to get it right all the time.

As far as correcting the other ROs? Meh. I might give the guy a hard time, like the one time someone told me to "Load and make ready" and I asked him if we were remaking "Triple Tap," but other than that, I'll let it slide--as long as all of the safety rules are observed.

Jees, if you are going to toss me under the bus please use the right bad range commands. "Poke it, stroke it, flick it, stick it!"

Anyone who has worked with me knows I hate bad range commands. It comes from my first CRO at the Nationals in 1991, Loren Orpwood, who would make me yell the right commands between squads when I screwed up. I never had an issue after that.

Proper range commands are important. Proper ROing is more important. Bad range commands are an "education" issue and should be done in private after the fact. Maybe, they have never been taught correctly. In clubs where multiple disciplines are nromally held, I have found Range commands can be an issue. A card with the correct commands taped to the timer or put in the range bucket so the RO can review can be useful. That is why I did up my range cards many years ago.

Jay

Edited July 24, 2013 by JayWord

[ima45dv8]

Do yourself a favor and learn the proper range commands. It isn't hard and doing otherwise undermines your credibility.

If you screw those up, expect competitors to [rightfully] question everything else that comes out of your mouth.

[tbarker13]

I've been a Safety Officer for IDPA for a couple years and recently got certified as an RO. I did both because our club needs people to help run matches.

Sadly, the range commands are similar but not exactly the same. There are times when training from one of the disciplines runs over into the other - as I am generally running or helping to run a squad two or three weekends a month.

Often we have new/inexperienced shooters. And my number one priority is making sure they get in and out of the stage without harming themselves or anyone else. If someone is bothered because I accidentally let a "slide down" slip into my RO cadence, that's cool. If they want to make a big deal out of it, I'm more than happy to surrender the timer to them so that I, too, can just concentrate on my shooting. That, or I would be more than happy to help them find a spot on a squad with another RO who's a little more perfect.

At larger matches, I can see the need to be picky about range commands. But at club matches, unless the RO's commands are somehow confusing to you, I don't see a reason to get bent out of shape. We're all just out to have fun, as safely as possible.

[sperman]

I doubt many shooters get to worked up over "Slide Forward" or "Load and Make Ready." However the "Give me a nod when you are ready" can be a real distraction to some people's routine. I've gotten into the habit of nodding at "Are you Ready" because that is easier than dealing with the RO's who don't know the rules and won't start you if you don't give them some sort of indication.

[mildot1]

Really, it's a volunteer sport. Busting the RO's balls for not using the latest commands (hell, I know two or three previously official versions, and will slip on occasion) is not constructive.

Yes, it's definitely worthwhile to use the correct commands Yes it's important to correct those RO's who don't use them. But it's not worth driving away people who are willing to help by riding them down.

Maybe try approaching it in a less judgemental way?:

"Slide forward? You've been around as long as I have if you remember that! Y'know, the SC told me the other day I should use the latest commands, since the newer shooters haven't heard the originals..."

"Stoke that smoke pole? That's funny right there. Y'know, Suzuki over there doesn't speak much English. I think he only knows the official commands..."

You don't even have to do it personally (it might just screw with your own head and match). Mention it to the MD or the SC, and then forget about it.

I think too many people think we need to run monthly matches like the nationals. Isn't the goal to attract new shooters? I think a bunch of stiff shirts is counter productive. Notice I did not say we should be lax on safety before someone jumps me on that. One example a new shooter shows up and has a Glock 22c, can't afford a new barrel yet, we let him shoot production or limited by letting him choose how many he wants to load in his mags. Not like he's beating someone to the prize table ( there is no prize table) becasue his gun should put him in open. Probably should use proper range commands especially with new shooters but good grief calling someone out on it or refusing to let them RO you? Same applies to heated arguments over doubles, A or C hit etc. but we have all seen it done. It is supposed to be a fun day a way to relax, fellowship with your friends.

Sorry, I didn't realize that giving proper range commands as stated in the rule book makes me a "stuffed shirt"? Maybe you should read Troy Mcmanus's article in the last Front Sight and get it in your head that a level one match is conducted "exactly as a level III when it comes to procedures and safety". The exemptions are for range setup and staff requirements only. Have I ever screwed the commands up? Yes I have and I knew it as soon as I said it. I simply told the shooter to stop and stand easy. Apologize for the error and start them at make ready again, if they ask to step down in the lineup or take a minute to re-group I'm fine with that to afterall it was my mistake. Humans will make errors but giving improper range commands because of apathy is WRONG! Learn them and use them as the BOOK says.

[ROY NEAL]

One of my favorites that I have written about previously was down in Georgia at a large Level III match. Canadian Shooter and top IROA Ontario official Phil Carierra was shooting. When he was finished, the RO uttered this phrase......"If your done, show me a clear gun" in a perfect southern twang. I thought Phil's eyeballs were going to pop out when he turned and looked at the RO to see if he was being filmed for "Punk'd". Then he realized the RO was serious and didn't know the proper range commands. Now every time I run Phil, I can't seem to help myself as I have to remind him of that. Now he laughs about it but it wasn't funny at the time it occurred.

The sad part is that this event was a level III and a great match. The problem is that we only remember the improper range commands from the event and not the event itself. And this story gets to told to all new IROA officials in IPSC as a bad example of what to say.

The range commands are the easiest thing for an official to learn considering how big the rule book is. At least get this right otherwise all credibility is thrown right out the window. You can make a bad call and get help from the CRO or RM and no big deal. Competitors will forgive you for that. Not so much if you screw them up at the beginning of their run by making them think of something other than what they should be concentrating on. Help them by getting this part right.

[tbarker13]

I doubt many shooters get to worked up over "Slide Forward" or "Load and Make Ready." However the "Give me a nod when you are ready" can be a real distraction to some people's routine. I've gotten into the habit of nodding at "Are you Ready" because that is easier than dealing with the RO's who don't know the rules and won't start you if you don't give them some sort of indication.

I think I nod in that situation as well, but just because it seems sort of natural to do so. I find myself doing it without even thinking about it.

[frag316]

I think Jay Worden said his favorite range command was something like "Pull it, stick it, stroke it, and smoke it."

I try my best to give the proper commands from the USPSA rulebook. I fumble sometimes, because "Load and make ready" was the command given when I was a n00b many, many years ago.

The only thing I'll say is that doing things a certain way will make that a habit. If you try some variation of "pull it, stick it, etc." at a Level II or higher match, you won't be asked back. I've only RO'd one Level II match, but I plan to do more in the future. I'd like to be asked back, so I try to get it right all the time.

As far as correcting the other ROs? Meh. I might give the guy a hard time, like the one time someone told me to "Load and make ready" and I asked him if we were remaking "Triple Tap," but other than that, I'll let it slide--as long as all of the safety rules are observed.

Jees, if you are going to toss me under the bus please use the right bad range commands. "Poke it, stroke it, flick it, stick it!"

Anyone who has worked with me knows I hate bad range commands. It comes from my first CRO at the Nationals in 1991, Loren Orpwood, who would make me yell the right commands between squads when I screwed up. I never had an issue after that.

Proper range commands are important. Proper ROing is more important. Bad range commands are an "education" issue and should be done in private after the fact. Maybe, they have never been taught correctly. In clubs where multiple disciplines are nromally held, I have found Range commands can be an issue. A card with the correct commands taped to the timer or put in the range bucket so the RO can review can be useful. That is why I did up my range cards many years ago.

Jay

I always mess that one up! Sorry, but it makes me laugh when I recall you talking about it in the class.

[ErichF]

My tactic is more passive. I will grab the timer and run a stage or two for the squad. When doing so, I emphasize the range commands more so than the RO not using proper commands. I also apply the commands more strictly, such as no conversation at "make ready". I don't issue Make Ready until they are in the correct location. Generally, the new RO or "Timer Operator" gets a clue and starts using more proper commands.

I also am one of those shooters that loses focus when I have to be interactive with the RO, such as "Nod wen yer reddy." Sometimes with a field course with lots of reloads, movement, etc where I have to do a good mind rehearsal, the whole Nod thing throws me off. An RO that commands the nod thing suddenly makes the commands about his requirements, not the shooter's.

To help out ROs to know when I am actually ready, I will leave my hand on the grip of my gun (if a standard start pos). When I slowly drop my hand to relaxed position, they should know I am ready. What's scary is how many times I've been asked if I'm ready, while my hand is still on the gun!

[Poppa Bear]

I tend to leave my hand on the gun or weak hand up on my chest, I also try to educate others do the same while they are prepping. When the hand goes into the correct start position then I am ready and I also know they are ready. If the start is holding or touching an object I try to pass on in the the initial stage briefing that we will be looking for them to assume the correct position or hold, then we will continue the commands. Things flow easier when everyone is on the same sheet of music.

[a matt]

I think that's most everyone's Q, when the hand comes off the gun and rests. Be it hands up or down.

[sperman]

At L2 and higher matches, there are more people to blame than the person on the timer. Someone had to put them in that position. If you are CRO on a stage, and letting other RO's run the timer, are you making sure they are using the proper range commands? If you are a RM/MD, how did you decide to assign CRO's for the match?

I worked a match earlier this year where one of the CRO's had been a member of USPSA for less than a year. Meanwhile there were guys with 20+ years of experience assigned as helper ROs. Is that really the best choice for who to put in charge of a stage?

[MarkCO]

Scott, in general, you make a good point. However, I know of some 20+ year guys I would not want running the timer in a dryfire match and 1 year guys who do it almost perfect.