Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

Chris iliff

  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Chris iliff

  1. I’m not so sure. Depends on what you think is an advantage? Funnest gun I own is a Springfield 1911 SS in 9mm. Shooting about 130pf. Pure fun. I get your point. But it all depends on what “you” want to accomplish.
  2. It’s not. And I wouldn’t know why you’d say something like that? a51193. I started in june 2004. I have well over 150 classifiers just in open. Slow learner yes, all day long, I’ll take that criticism. But to attack my character? Geez you must be a Doodie. And my record shows I shot a solid 2-4 classifiers per month about April till October, or whatever the months for I know well over 8 -10 years. Now i I haven’t looked it all up, but I’m confident in the numbers I cited and for you to say different? Geez. Shooting took a back seat when the Wife went to nursing school and money got tight. I haven’t shot but a handful of matches a year since. But it I still love the sport and think about it. I kinda quit coming to forums because of shenanigans like you just pulled. Seems maybe even Enos isn’t the place if they allow dregs like you.
  3. Now that’s some good stuff. As an open shooter, I’d strongly disagree with your assessment of the differences. Ill stick with “radically” different. Comps, weight, trigger, grips, rounds, It’s radically different. The dot? That’s a small % compared to the overall. But it’s such a huge physical difference, when you first see an open gun, it does stand out. I also don’t agree that everything about CO has been tried in open. 15 years, 10 years solid, shooting 2-4 matches a month in open from April to October. Hundreds of thousands of rounds. I haven’t seen what your saying, but then,...I don’t claim to have seen or know it all. It’s just my experience. And a premise or question is just that. I ain’t claiming anything. I’m asking. Probing. Deciding. I haven’t decided yet if it’s worthwhile. Its a nice process though,...and Enos is the best. Thanks again.
  4. Here, I think, is where we separate in ideas. And, it’s probably my poor ability to properly write what I am trying to express. I am not talking about bringing CO into Open. That is ridiculous and would result in a beat down if compared straight up. I’ll admit that Looking at some other results, maybe this year is a fluke. But I’m not ready to go there just yet,...it wasn’t just one good shooter shining on a grooved in platform. So, when it’s more than 1 doing it, even in just one match, maybe it’s something. Ymmv. I am saying that a CO gun is radically different than an open gun. Open lite is an apropos description, but at the same time it is just a tad misleading. There are tons of mods that you simply can’t do to that CO. But yet there it was, on top. Does that teach us anything??
  5. Ahhh, that’s some things to think on. I was under the the impression that CO has been steadily gaining in popularity and as a result, creeping up the overalls since it’s debut. Better and better shooters are shooting it. So, seeing it win HOA, plus coupled with the fact that Max outshot his own Open times at the same match, set my wheels in motion. Basically seeing two different big names beating Open with it caused me to start the thread. Not sure I’m seeing much of an open gun difference in steel challenge when we are talking same caliber. Open steel guns in the standard open calibers, look and feel pretty much like the run of the mill open guns in USPSA. But I know they are sprung different. I appreciate your input and knowledge.
  6. Ok. Thanks. Your input has been valuable. That’s good stuff.
  7. Whew! I got to say I missed this. Dang. That changes it a bit, but I’d still say CO is nipping at Opens butt. Thanks for posting that.
  8. 1st Again, with the rifles and handguns? Ok 2nd. Within open, we have only went one way with development. Of course there will ALWAYS be an advantage with MAJOR. I NEVER SAID OTHERWISE. I just wonder how much more we could DECREASE that advantage with a new look at what constitutes an open gun shooting at the other end of the BANG SCALE. Any? Some? Negate completely? Even it up? 3rd. The gun I’m talking about might get royally smeared. But, it hasn’t been PROVEN. NO ONE HAS DEVELOPED THE GUN. Granted it might be a FOOLS errand and that’s why. Exhausting the talking points is the first step. Personally, I probably have more time behind an open gun than most people on this board. I know Exactly what the feel is. There are more sensations and experiences, physically if you will, than shooting any other platform. 4th. I don’t find it “lame”. But, that’s me. So gun wise, what were the differences between that CO gun that won HOA and the Open gun? What attributes were different and helped the CO gun have a slight edge? Any attributes? Weight, length,..etc?
  9. So you don’t see the current CO win as a dethrone? More a bump in the road? That could be. So rephrase my question a bit. What could be done to the open platform to mitigate loss? Are there possibilities to explore? Is it stuck, or can we learn anything from the CO platform?
  10. Rifles vs handguns? Not sure that’s even relevant. Now I’ve asked a reasonable question? Seems the same to me, I just kept cleaning it up until people didn’t get triggered. It takes me awhile, but I figure it out, lol. So so what do you think?
  11. Never said USPSA was steel challenge. You didn't miss Mikes point, but you’ve both missed my point. I am talking about every advantage, just outside the normal paradigm. Which I understand can be difficult to escape. We have NO IDEA WHAT ADVANTAGES LAY WAITING TO BE DISCOVERED in a completely rethought open platform in minor. It is largely unexplored,...the movers and shakers went off in more more more direction and never looked back. It’s the open paradigm. So so I’ll ask again,...but I’ll take the trigger words out. What could be done to the the open platform in “steel challenge” to return it to a position of dominance? This would probably be a less less less thing. And I’m guessing here because I’m no Smith, but,....No comp, minimum slide,, very short, lightest frame, lightest grip,etc,...???
  12. Wow! Thanks for looking that up. Do you think the open platform could be radically re thought? Maybe resulting in a bigger spread with open on top? It’s kinda obvious that right now CO and Open are neck and neck at steel challenge in the hands of the best. What could be be done to the open platform to return it to its previous dominance in the hands of the best?
  13. Again, the gun I’m referencing isn’t in practiscore or any USPSA results. Or steel challenge results. Shift your paradigm, I ain’t your life coach.
  14. Reminds me of pushing for “production optics” in various threads years ago. The paradigm is so strong, it becomes very difficult to overcome.
  15. Why would you do that? You seem to be missing the point? We already know all that. Your analysis should be,... If You had a gun, heretofore undeveloped, that shot minor, but operated in open, using the same rules as open, the same capacity as open, and all the other do’s and don’ts of open, could you win against yourself. Would you beat yourself? And here’s the hard part. Don’t picture a typical open gun. I ain’t talking that.
  16. That’d be interesting, but remember,...I’m not really talking about a CO gun. The CO gun winning just caused me to think,....how much more could he have won by, if he didn’t have to follow all the restrictions in CO?? Basically, a heretofore never developed minor gun in open.
  17. Yes you kinda nail my hypothesis. Except, as an industry, I don’t believe we’ve ever explored minor in an open platform outside the pre-existing Open gun paradigm. Im asking because I’m not sold myself. Plus I love the exchange, especially from people that know competition shooting. I will say this, ,...I wouldn’t shoot steel challenge with some watered down version of a traditional open platform anymore.
  18. It’s always the shooter, so you are singing to the choir on that point. I agree 100%. But in this competition we find that a shooter beat his own open times, with a different platform. Its about as heads up a comparison as you can get between two platforms. Big name, big stakes. Same guy. I don’t believe BJ was shooting a wonder gun. Thats kinda my point. Hmmm,..I had an exact replica of my open gun in .22. So easy I got rid of it.
  19. First paragraph is spot on, thanks. Yep, that’s about what I was wondering. Second paragraph,...didn’t better shooters kinda just demonstrate that they could shoot faster, at least on steel? Using a platform that is constrained by rules I might add. Like you Moto, I am also just a garden variety M open shooter who has only dabbled over the last 15 or so years. I find it all interesting and appreciate all the feedback. It makes Enos the best.
  20. Oh you misunderstand me. Taking it personal couldn’t be further from the truth. Hence, the the light hearted lol. Seems like we managed some “extra speed” on a clunky CO gun?? It did win HOA. I’m just wondering, if there could be enough more developments, hitherto undiscovered, to warrant a look? So far, I really haven’t heard much other than,...1 shot game vs 2 shot game. Which is valid. I’ve also gathered that we possibly could gain some innovation in “open” steel guns. I mean the results alone warrant a fresh look at “open” steel guns and the generally agreed upon conventions surrounding them. Again, we skyrocketed along a certain paradigm with an open gun,.....outside of Steel guns, that look exactly like traditional open guns, no one has ever went full bore the other direction. I find it interesting. YMMV.
  21. Hmmm, I’ll up your negativity with a resounding no, to your no. Lol So you are positive, through your decades of testing and research, that a minor shooting purpose built open gun that doesn’t have to follow the platform rules of “co” and could be built using open rules,... is simply a “no”. Thanks Moto, you have never disappointed me. Send me all that research and every single mod you tried and discarded. It’ll be a great time saver.
  22. That is definitely true. And you further define what what I am having trouble expressing. Thanks. Now, ...don’t think traditional “open” or “co” or even “production with optic.” Take away all constraints on that CO build. What would be accomplished then? I'm talking about a gun that hasn’t been built yet. An area not fully explored. With a frame mounted dot on a purpose built pistol for “minor”, ...could you achieve a flat shooting beast that was so good, it negated all the bells and whistles on a traditional open gun AND made major scoring less of an issue, maybe even a moot point?
  • Create New...