insertgenericid Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Seems to me, more sponsors mean more on the prize table. Is there a reason I should care what is on the prize table? I have a job, so I can buy pretty much whatever I want. I choose matches based on the quality of the stages and the quality of the competition. As far as growing the sport, I think PO is entirely the wrong approach. The right approach is to get younger people and women involved. Kids and famiies are the future of every sport. I think regarding sponsorship, shooting is like bicycle or motorcycle racing. As long as you are only chasing industry-specific sponsors, you have a very small pond to fish in. The big money is in energy drinks, beer, diet supplements, SUV's, insurance, and other crap like that. None of that means that PO is a bad idea, but I don't think it's a sensible approach for growth, if growth is what we want. Of course it won't all come from one new division; Growth in USPSA needs to occur on multiple fronts, promotion of our National events may lead to more interest, better support from USPSA for our clubs could help to show the benefits of membership in the organization, more members may lead to more support/interest from a wider variety of manufacturers, particularly if the factory divisions continue to grow. Any sport needs growth, PO is one piece of the puzzle, it is not the ONLY piece and I don't think anyone has claimed that it is. I am of course nothing more than a lurker, but to my my mind, the divisions are a significant barrier to growth, but not as much as major and minor. What's the most common pistol caliber? 9mm. But you can't shoot that and be competitive in any division besides Production. And you get bounced from production for doing any of a number of common upgrades. Magwells, slide lightening or altering, undercutting, aftermarket triggers. Major/minor basically says "Oh, you're moderately familiar with firearms, but not our sport? Nice custom Glock. But sit on this and spin, you shoot the wrong caliber." And the "just reload" response is even worse. I have limited time to shoot, and I'm not going to spend it cranking out rounds. Just a newby, lurker opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 ^ Why I don't shoot anything but 3 gun even though I'd like to shoot pistol matches on off weekends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdboytyler Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I only shoot a match once in a blue moon, but when I do, I shoot Open class with a STI 2011 and a frame mounted Aimpoint Micro. Because of my experience in shooting an Open gun, I've been wanting to put a slide mounted optic on my bedside 1911 (RIA in .45 ACP). I've been waiting on the the Delta Point Pro before I go forward with upgrading my self defense 1911. So I completely understand the desire for a Production Optic division. Once I stick a $600 optic on my $500 gun, it would be fun to shoot classifiers in a future Production Optics division (if single stacks were allowed). I would shoot the match with my Open gun and just run the classifier stage a second time with my PO gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPSS Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 it would be fun to shoot classifiers in a future Production Optics division (if single stacks were allowed). It wouldn't. it would be a open gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabbermurph Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 What about a Polymer only Slide Mounted optics division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 it would be fun to shoot classifiers in a future Production Optics division (if single stacks were allowed). It wouldn't. it would be a open gun. Single Stack Optics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 All sports have divisions, requirements, and rules governing the equipment used, and the way the game is played. So you know, your 9mm will make major in open, and all the rest of your equipment will probably be legal too. As far as Single Stack/Pro Optics, I really like my idea of baby open that I posted a couple of pages back, but looks like I am the only one, so, I'll keep on shooting the divisions we have within the rules we have, and have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 All sports have divisions, requirements, and rules governing the equipment used, and the way the game is played. So you know, your 9mm will make major in open, and all the rest of your equipment will probably be legal too. As far as Single Stack/Pro Optics, I really like my idea of baby open that I posted a couple of pages back, but looks like I am the only one, so, I'll keep on shooting the divisions we have within the rules we have, and have fun. I think you and I may be the only ones for a more liberal version of a second optics division. I think it is funny that all the Production optics fans got excited when IDPA proposed a short dust cover limited minor optics division, when it looked like a division may actually happen the harping that it HAD to be production based was ignored because in reality it didn't make any difference in performance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydoc Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 51 pages on this WOW !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 51 pages on this WOW !!!! Lotsa pages for a topic that supposedly has no interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydoc Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I'd hate to do a list on pro and cons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NPSS Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 All sports have divisions, requirements, and rules governing the equipment used, and the way the game is played. So you know, your 9mm will make major in open, and all the rest of your equipment will probably be legal too. As far as Single Stack/Pro Optics, I really like my idea of baby open that I posted a couple of pages back, but looks like I am the only one, so, I'll keep on shooting the divisions we have within the rules we have, and have fun. I think you and I may be the only ones for a more liberal version of a second optics division. I think it is funny that all the Production optics fans got excited when IDPA proposed a short dust cover limited minor optics division, when it looked like a division may actually happen the harping that it HAD to be production based was ignored because in reality it didn't make any difference in performance That and a lot of the guns with slide optics out there have non production legal mods anyway. Production was a bad starting place. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Would the flip and catch be banned in PO ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Would the flip and catch be banned in PO ?The flip and catch will get you killed on the streets.Oh never mind.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric4069 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 All sports have divisions, requirements, and rules governing the equipment used, and the way the game is played. So you know, your 9mm will make major in open, and all the rest of your equipment will probably be legal too. As far as Single Stack/Pro Optics, I really like my idea of baby open that I posted a couple of pages back, but looks like I am the only one, so, I'll keep on shooting the divisions we have within the rules we have, and have fun. I think you and I may be the only ones for a more liberal version of a second optics division.I think it is funny that all the Production optics fans got excited when IDPA proposed a short dust cover limited minor optics division, when it looked like a division may actually happen the harping that it HAD to be production based was ignored because in reality it didn't make any difference in performance My suggestion for a "more liberal version of a second optics division" would be as follows: 1. Slide ride optics only. 2. No comps. 3. Minor scoring only. 4. No single action autos. 5. Hammer down start for DA/SA. 6. No use of the Production list. I was a supporter of the recent Production Optics proposal but I would also not have the word "Production" in the name next time as I think it is quite clear that the Board has no interest in any changes to or any expansion of Production Division. I assume this whole topic will come back to the Board in a few years. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Looks like Production Optics has a chance in IPSC http://ipsc.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=18632&page=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atbarr Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Well, it looks like one organization is living in the 21st Century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric4069 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Looks like Production Optics has a chance in IPSC http://ipsc.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=18632&page=2 I'm not a member of that forum so can't see it, what does it say? Eric Edited January 23, 2015 by eric4069 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydoc Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I'm party to this thread and a similar one on the Aust forum, I wouldn't hold my breath as it has been pushed up the chain but didn't get a very good reception at the higher levels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swanny10 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Yeah, great idea to contact your AD .... I don't think waiting for folks to show up with 9mm minor open guns and shoot them in open would work. You can be competitive without being viable to win your division at a match. Why go shoot a division where you know before you pull the trigger for the first time you are at a disadvantage? I also don't buy the whole " I'm just here for fun" argument either .... This is a competition and to some degree everyone is competitive. Show me someone who has never looked at their score after a match and then I'll believe it. "You can be competitive without being viable to win your division at a match." This makes no sense to me. Maybe it's just my perspective. But, if I am not viable threat to win, then I don't believe I am competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 It has been determined.....The term Production Optics shall no longer be used. That vulgar term has the ability to render normally intelligent shooters into drooling imbeciles with low critical thinking skills. HENCEFORTH ......the term MINOR OPTICS will be used. For clarification, this proposed division has nothing whatsoever to do with Production. NOTHING. I ALREADY HAVE ONE FORMER PO ANTAGONIST IN MY COURT, MORE ARE SURE TO FOLLOW. This is the start of the wave, I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Optics Minor - now that might make sense. Bypasses the "advantage" of major caliber, allows use of both optics and ports, if you want them (think M&P Core), doesn't require one of those "evil" expensive custom 2011s. All types of guns (polymer, 1911, etc.) could be used. It's inclusive, democratic, fair to everyone. Hmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 It would still be dominated by 2011s and CZ clones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Optics minor sounds horrible. Should allow 8 major, 10 minor. Comps would be nice, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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