NPSS

The only "cheap" way to shoot USPSA is Production with off the shelf striker gun and load your own ammo with coated or plated bullets.Trust me, don't try to shoot Open division on aProduction budget! You can shoot limited for just as cheap as production. Not with a 40. But yes, with a 9mm scoring minor you sure can 40 isn't that much more to load.

The only "cheap" way to shoot USPSA is Production with off the shelf striker gun and load your own ammo with coated or plated bullets.Trust me, don't try to shoot Open division on aProduction budget! You can shoot limited for just as cheap as production.

We all know shootings sports like USPSA/IPSC and 3 gun have a certain reputation for "Race guns" and special equipment. Some of it's warranted, a lot of it isn't. How and where do YOU save money?Used guns and gear for beginners? Reloading your own ammo? Make your own case lube? Car pool to matches? Use a certain economical bullet type for practice? Maybe a different powder too?? Promote brands on social media for discounts? Share below. Ideas will be used for media to get more shooters shooting matches. *What I'm not looking for is responses like " you won't save any money shooting these games herp de derp I shoot 40 majors a year and use gold plated brass"

Now here's the kicker, calculate the difference in powder to get the same velocity, and figure out how many rounds you could shoot with the g34 before the extra 120$ pays itself off. Over the service life of the gun, you will use a lot less powder to get your pf. It seems worth it to me for the one time cost. I need to do other stuff I'm going insane

I have 2 recent ones that are 100%. Buying more. If you can't see the utility in a 16$ glock mag with a ez of base plate, idk bro. I like to show up to the range and not have to spend time loading magazines. Half price magazines make that way easier. Also products and versions of products have bugs to work out. Thats why I waited on the Gen4 guns and I waited on these mags.

The sight radius is a moot point, because learning how much sight picture you need is part of learning your gun and playing this game. I'd be surprised if one person here could tell you the difference without googling between to the 2 sight radiuses at 25 with a 1/32 deviation in any direction from perfect visually/mechanical center. Now the barrel gets you more velocity all day long.

It's crazy how europeans play a harder version of our game then we do. If it's not a whole match of hosing 5th gear field courses with enough match points to suck up mikes and no shoots, we don't care. Don't even dream of putting a low port in the middle of a stage.

I think you and I may be the only ones for a more liberal version of a second optics division. I think it is funny that all the Production optics fans got excited when IDPA proposed a short dust cover limited minor optics division, when it looked like a division may actually happen the harping that it HAD to be production based was ignored because in reality it didn't make any difference in performance That and a lot of the guns with slide optics out there have non production legal mods anyway. Production was a bad starting place. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It wouldn't. it would be a open gun.

This is simply false.

lol "wake up". Arrogant much? Plenty of companies make special snowflake guns. How about "production ported"? Glock has been doing those forever. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This seems to be a gun thing too. Plastic guns like 147s while cz people like 125s and 135s. Using heavy non FMJ rounds use the least powder. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can they even shoot gen 4's in California? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LOL CZ's and Tanfo's are more popular in IPSC because of the 5# first pull requirment in IPSC production as well as the other rules for production. CZ and Tanfo have versions of their guns from the factory that are largely optimized for IPSC style shooting, or come with said factory enhanced parts on some version of a gun which makes it legal for all versions. USPSA's more liberal Production rules allow shooters to shorten up the perceived mechanical disadvantages with non factory parts as long as they are USPSA legal.

Mass issue is the actual test of a concept's applicability to LE. THATS why I included a time frame. It won't happen in the next 20 years if ever . Having a couple scattered teams here and there isn't much for demand or proof of concept. Shields, Revolvers, Thermal Cameras, Suppressors, Night Vision, Laser Light on Revolvers for the guy carrying the shield and/or Optics are all widely used but not always standard issued due to budgets and City Hall or County Commission politics. HOWEVER since you wanted to go there, optics can be super useful for clearing a room or house in a low light situation with a guy who has barricaded himself and girlfriend into a back bedroom. Throw in a little smoke or gas and guess what you can't see sights through your goggles for the guy now holding a knife to her. Basically any call after dark would be useful with an optic because you cannot see your sights with the mounted flashlight underneath. Night sights don't actually work all that great so it evolves into point shooting looking over the slide. There is a lot of discussion in LE communities of how certain situations Optics can be a huge advantage. Granted the day shift guy working in broad daylight probably won't benefit all that much from an Optic, but most likely he's command staff just trying to get to lunch and back. Since that day shift guy going to lunch and back approves the budgets you are right it probably will not be approved. So you are probably right good sir, I concede. Exactly, why would anyone want or get a optic slapped on their gun when training dosent even happen. HOWEVER since you wanted to go there, the RMR'ed guns that LE guys are using wouldn't fit into the narrowly requested ProOptics rules set described in this thread. Look at the RMR'ed guns LE guys are using all you'll also find features like full stippling(not legal), undercut trigger guards(not legal),grip recontouring(not legal),cut near the mag well for ripping stuck mags out(not legal), backup irons(not legal)extended controls for use with gloves(legality depends on which parts used). I would love to be a fly on the wall for that guy who does this to his duty issued firearm. It would be hilarious, because most agencies have strict policy on this. On the other hand, I love a good rebel sticking it to the man, to heck with policy. So you are probably right good sir, I concede. ​A optic isn't any different. The departments that are liberal enough to approve a optic usually don't mind the other things. Go ask Dave Bowie who he's been building optic duty guns for for the last 15 years. See how that went? The division that is claimed to be a place where these guns can be competitive in dosent even allow for a majority of these type of guns that are already out there. What!? Huh!? How'd did what go? Okay you're right, I'm stupid, I concede. A majority A majority of the "ProOPtics" guns that are already out there would be ILLEGAL for production optics division.

You are absolutely insane if you think LE will be using RMR's in the next 20 year for mass issue. He said nothing about mass issue or twenty years. Some LE agencies already issue them to specialty units. All this talk of making a competitive division for people with poor eye sight is hilarious. If you have poor eye sight, you won't be competitive period. Stop kidding yourself. Some people can see the targets fine, they just can't see the front sight, reading glasses don't work for shooting. This type of vision loss effects everyone at some point in their life, because our eyes age. Optics help solve this problem. Mass issue is the actual test of a concept's applicability to LE. THATS why I included a time frame. It won't happen in the next 20 years if ever . Having a couple scattered teams here and there isn't much for demand or proof of concept. HOWEVER since you wanted to go there, the RMR'ed guns that LE guys are using wouldn't fit into the narrowly requested ProOptics rules set described in this thread. Look at the RMR'ed guns LE guys are using all you'll also find features like full stippling(not legal), undercut trigger guards(not legal),grip recontouring(not legal),cut near the mag well for ripping stuck mags out(not legal), backup irons(not legal)extended controls for use with gloves(legality depends on which parts used). See how that went? The division that is claimed to be a place where these guns can be competitive in dosent even allow for a majority of these type of guns that are already out there. To the eyesight thing, at that point, the eye sight isn't the only thing making a person non competitive if they where in the 1st place. This is just one more cry from the guys who started IPSC with tunnels,walls, long streches between shooting boxes,and summersaults to test gear retention, but now want to dumb the sport down for them now that they are older.

This thread reminds me of

You are absolutely insane if you think LE will be using RMR's in the next 20 year for mass issue. All this talk of making a competitive division for people with poor eye sight is hilarious. If you have poor eye sight, you won't be competitive period. Stop kidding yourself.

Did your gauges ever tell you anything in any difference between the brands?

A nd is never intentional. In that context, there isn't a "up range" Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I saw 3 lbs today Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just a update for more data points. I shot NC and SC this year. Not sure the temp difference but both times I chromed the 2/3rd stage of the day. 3.7 WST with a Blue bullet 147gr round nose @ 1.110. was 142PF. 3.5 WST with a Blue bullet 147gr round nose @ 1.110 was 131 PF. Gun is g4G17 stock barrel.

People who prefer the finger release usually have smaller hands. I have to rotate the gun to do that because my fingers are too long.

The gen 4 frame makes this gun much goods shootables. If I somehow had to shoot a plastic 45, this would be it.

http://www.thebluebullets.com/product-p/250p-147rn-9.htm