Production optics

[BritinUSA]

I like the idea of a Facebook page as well. That way I'm sure I will never have to read it.

I'm sure that you don't have to read this either...

[Bkreutz]

I like the idea of a Facebook page as well. That way I'm sure I will never have to read it.

I'm sure that you don't have to read this either...

You're correct, I don't have to read this either. What I was alluding to was that with Facebook, it becomes an impossibility with me, since I never will darken their door. It was a joke, but apparently humor is lost on this subject. I'll leave now.

[PKT1106]

Ok, let's play this out and PO does get adopted into USPSA. Then what? People of all levels will try PO and we will have the same storyline of needing different dots or guns to be competitive with the top shooters and how the older guys can't keep up or don't want to spend money on trigger parts or whatnot that will be allowed in the PO division and new people will be hesitant to participate because of the need for a certain gun or optic to be competitive.

Then, manufacturers will come out with something new for the mainstream shooter and a small contingent will jump on that bandwagon for all the same reasons already stated here and we begin this ride all over again.

If you want to run a dot, we have a division for that already. If you say you can't be competitive with a Glock in that division, I would gladly point to any one of a handful of top shooters who could probably win a good deal of open and limited divisions with a KelTec or at least a Beretta 92. You think their equipment got them there?

[Ultimo-Hombre]

Apologize for what?

If you don't see the errors in Sarge's assumptions I feel sorry for you

Funny, we have waiting lists for our matches, I guess only you PO haters have an issue with what's going on. To each their own

Come on guys. He has a waiting list for his matches. That is pretty epic. I mean nationals and area 2, who else has a waiting list?

If he has developed that kind of following we all should learn something from him.

[Ultimo-Hombre]

Apologize for what? If your club becomes affiliated with USPSA then your PO becomes Open minor, pretty simple, & as long as you want to use the hypothetical term "Production Optics" you should leave any reference to USPSA out of your advertising, because it is not.

You're right, but it's not at this time is it? So PO it is!!!

If you don't see the errors in Sarge's assumptions I feel sorry for you

Funny, we have waiting lists for our matches, I guess only you PO haters have an issue with what's going on. To each their own

Ok I'm a retard and screwed up the quote. Just to be clear....

Like I said. Waiting list for "non level 1 match"

Edited December 15, 2014 by Ultimo-Hombre

[Sarge]

How does a waiting list work for a local monthly match?

[OPENB]

They are doing waiting lists for Circleville 3gun. Online registration, if full you are waiting.

[Jadeslade]

Ok, let's play this out and PO does get adopted into USPSA. Then what? People of all levels will try PO and we will have the same storyline of needing different dots or guns to be competitive with the top shooters and how the older guys can't keep up or don't want to spend money on trigger parts or whatnot that will be allowed in the PO division and new people will be hesitant to participate because of the need for a certain gun or optic to be competitive.

Then, manufacturers will come out with something new for the mainstream shooter and a small contingent will jump on that bandwagon for all the same reasons already stated here and we begin this ride all over again.

If you want to run a dot, we have a division for that already. If you say you can't be competitive with a Glock in that division, I would gladly point to any one of a handful of top shooters who could probably win a good deal of open and limited divisions with a KelTec or at least a Beretta 92. You think their equipment got them there?

Awesome, crystal ball operational. Can you give me a line on the next Malibu Stakes. That would be truly awesome.

[PKT1106]

Awesome, crystal ball operational. Can you give me a line on the next Malibu Stakes. That would be truly awesome.

Say what you want, but we'll just be back in the same place again later. People saying it costs too much to get into PO and they can't be competitive if they don't spend that much.

As for horse-racing, I usually take a mid-odds horse to show.

[ToddKS]

Shot my first Steel Challenge match with my "Production Optics Ready" (Open) XDm last Saturday. It was a lot of fun but now what I really want is a comp and a race holster. I wonder how many others would arrive at the same conclusion and just go full open were PO an official division.

I don't have funding to rebarrel and comp my gun right now but that race holster could arrive early Q1 .

[Ultimo-Hombre]

Shot my first Steel Challenge match with my "Production Optics Ready" (Open) XDm last Saturday. It was a lot of fun but now what I really want is a comp and a race holster. I wonder how many others would arrive at the same conclusion and just go full open were PO an official division.

I don't have funding to rebarrel and comp my gun right now but that race holster could arrive early Q1 .

so would it be fair to say that "PO" would not be long term viable for you?

[ToddKS]

It would need to gain a lot of traction quickly, which given the current sentiment of the BOD seems unlikely. Unless there are serious signs of life my pistol will likely have a comp before the end of 2015.

Even if it were to shows signs of becoming viable I am not sure it would be enough to keep me from eventually going to open. I might feel differently if I shot more USPSA but I am mostly a Steel Challenge guy. The attraction of the dot was to shoot faster. I saw some of what was possible this weekend. Now I am thinking how much better life could be if I had a comp to keep that stupid muzzle from jumping about and how much faster my crappy draw might be if I had a race holster. I want more faster and I don't know that Production Optics as a division would be enough to stop me even if it actually existed.

[ZackJones]

I've shot two USPSA and multiple steel challenge matches with my M&P CORE and it was fun but my experience pretty much mirrors ToddKS'. After getting a taste of it and also having a Ruger 22/45 with red dot on it I know I would prefer a statically mounted dot versus a slide ride. My goal for 2015 is to acquire an STI steelmaster. We cn talk about how great and fun PO would be but with our current BoD make up it is clear it would never become a division.

[motosapiens]

Now I am thinking how much better life could be if I had a comp to keep that stupid muzzle from jumping about and how much faster my crappy draw might be if I had a race holster.

I heard that practicing makes you faster. I know for sure that working on my grip has really tamed the stupid muzzle jumping around.

[Onepocket]

Practice is for chumps. It just reinforces bad form. -

[ToddKS]

Now I am thinking how much better life could be if I had a comp to keep that stupid muzzle from jumping about and how much faster my crappy draw might be if I had a race holster.

I heard that practicing makes you faster. I know for sure that working on my grip has really tamed the stupid muzzle jumping around.

My grip strength is solid. I do BadChad's exercises several times a week and split my firewood by hand with an axe. I crush granite into gravel with my bare hands. Walnuts fear my vice like grip.

I practice too. Have my little paper dry fire targets all over the basement walls and do live fire as often as my schedule and the weather allow, typically 3-4 times a month. Cut my own steel practice targets using a 4 inch angle grinder and my previously mentioned crushingly strong hands.

None of this can compare to new gear. We all know that true progress can only come from new toys. If I am going to be in Open anyway I might as well get the rest of the goodies that I am entitled to. I want my magic comp to make my gun run flat as a pond on a calm spring day and my magic holster will make the pistol jump into my hand like a Jedi's light saber. While I am at it I think I want a mag well for those super fast reloads and some mag extentions just in case a run really doesn't go my way (standing reloads are embarrassing in Steel Challenge but you can use 22 rounds like a boss as long as you are shooting fast). Victory is mine for the taking, I just have to get the right accessories.

[cnote]

kinda like ......

with a super "arrow"

Edited December 16, 2014 by cnote

[2MoreChains]

Now I am thinking how much better life could be if I had a comp to keep that stupid muzzle from jumping about and how much faster my crappy draw might be if I had a race holster.

I heard that practicing makes you faster. I know for sure that working on my grip has really tamed the stupid muzzle jumping around.

My grip strength is solid. I do BadChad's exercises several times a week and split my firewood by hand with an axe. I crush granite into gravel with my bare hands. Walnuts fear my vice like grip.

I practice too. Have my little paper dry fire targets all over the basement walls and do live fire as often as my schedule and the weather allow, typically 3-4 times a month. Cut my own steel practice targets using a 4 inch angle grinder and my previously mentioned crushingly strong hands.

None of this can compare to new gear. We all know that true progress can only come from new toys. If I am going to be in Open anyway I might as well get the rest of the goodies that I am entitled to. I want my magic comp to make my gun run flat as a pond on a calm spring day and my magic holster will make the pistol jump into my hand like a Jedi's light saber. While I am at it I think I want a mag well for those super fast reloads and some mag extentions just in case a run really doesn't go my way (standing reloads are embarrassing in Steel Challenge but you can use 22 rounds like a boss as long as you are shooting fast). Victory is mine for the taking, I just have to get the right accessories.

Victory thru superior spending power!

[zhunter]

I would bet that a Provisional Production Optics would immediately have higher participation that both Revo and L-10, and likely more than both combined.

[motosapiens]

I would bet that a Provisional Production Optics would immediately have higher participation that both Revo and L-10, and likely more than both combined.

I would take that bet.

at least locally, i see several people shooting L10 regularly, and I've only seen 1 person ever (one time) with a PO gun.

[zhunter]

I would bet that a Provisional Production Optics would immediately have higher participation that both Revo and L-10, and likely more than both combined.

I would take that bet.

at least locally, i see several people shooting L10 regularly, and I've only seen 1 person ever (one time) with a PO gun.

Lol

You've only seen 1 person with a gun that has no division? I'd say that's not a very realistic sample

[motosapiens]

I would bet that a Provisional Production Optics would immediately have higher participation that both Revo and L-10, and likely more than both combined.

I would take that bet.

at least locally, i see several people shooting L10 regularly, and I've only seen 1 person ever (one time) with a PO gun.

Lol

You've only seen 1 person with a gun that has no division? I'd say that's not a very realistic sample

PO guns have a division.

I MD a weekly steel match too. People bring all kinds of stuff to shoot at that.

[Nik Habicht]

I would bet that a Provisional Production Optics would immediately have higher participation that both Revo and L-10, and likely more than both combined.

OK, but both of those divisions accommodate folks whose guns aren't competitive anywhere else......

I don't think you want to beat on those divisions when you're looking for the same accommodation -- because you're blaster would not be competitive in Open....

[Nik Habicht]

I would bet that a Provisional Production Optics would immediately have higher participation that both Revo and L-10, and likely more than both combined.

I would take that bet.

at least locally, i see several people shooting L10 regularly, and I've only seen 1 person ever (one time) with a PO gun.

Lol

You've only seen 1 person with a gun that has no division? I'd say that's not a very realistic sample

PO guns have a division.

I MD a weekly steel match too. People bring all kinds of stuff to shoot at that.

Not a division where they have a chance at being competitive.....

[motosapiens]

I would bet that a Provisional Production Optics would immediately have higher participation that both Revo and L-10, and likely more than both combined.

I would take that bet.

at least locally, i see several people shooting L10 regularly, and I've only seen 1 person ever (one time) with a PO gun.

Lol

You've only seen 1 person with a gun that has no division? I'd say that's not a very realistic sample

PO guns have a division.

I MD a weekly steel match too. People bring all kinds of stuff to shoot at that.

Not a division where they have a chance at being competitive.....

what do you mean by 'competitive'? Is the object to 'win' your local match, among people of the same skill who have full-on open guns? Then sure, probably not in the hunt for the motorhome that goes to the high overall each month at our matches. OTOH, if the object is to get better each month, then it doesn't really matter what label you put on the division.

In my experience, the overwhelming majority of people aren't 'competitive' with *any* gun, unless all the good guys don't show up.