Do open guns ever run.....

[Chris iliff]

First step: Buy used open gun.

Second step: Send said gun to reputable gunsmith.

Third step: send all mags to a reputable tuner.

Fourth step:: shoot worry free.

I've never understood the Open guns don't run comments. They run, like sewing machines. I shoot a GAN's, a 9 no less, and have for years, if my gun hiccups, it's me or my ammo, not the gun. I've never seen an Open gun by a reputable smith not run if it is properly maintained, and at this point I've just about seen them all.

All the reputable smiths are very good. If you call GAN's and send it to him I guarantee you'll have it back very quick. Probably within a week. No kidding, The guy is just amazing.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Chris iliff

[Paul-the new guy]

I think that buying a used gun involves a certain amount of tweaking. I think the "local" guy will get it running. I have zero experience with shooting an open gun and doing the required work to get it to like me and work for me. I need to develop a load with an oal length that will make this gun run. Spend some time figuring out the magazines etc. Thanks for all of the feedback so far

[Robert King]

My Predator Tactical Banshee runs like a top. No malfunctions yet, after developing a good load for it. S*I platform is fickle and you just need to work through the bugs and it will run great. You can have just as much trouble with a limited gun.

[buckaroo45]

I've had 2 Open Glocks. Neither would run for me but performed 100% for others. I've gone back to my Beretta 92 and Para 16. Neither has ever failed to run for me. Sometimes it's the indian and not the arrow. Some guys just can't drive a Corvette.

[OperationHitFactor]

The problem a lot of times in local matches is ammo. A lot of guys rush their loading process Friday nights. Most don't bother to case gauge or chamber check their ammo. Some guys get lazy and don't clean mags or their mag springs are long past over do for a tune up. That being said, a lot of Open guns are built like crap. Standard iron sight Double/Single stack 1911/2011's are pretty forgiving on tolerances. They can have minor timing, ejection, and/or extraction issues but still run. Open guns... not so much. The slightest thing out of tune or spec on an Open gun will lead to infinite sadness and frustration.

[Paul-the new guy]

I am not sad... I know all will be well. I was a little taken aback by the fact that everyones gun puked... at least I was not alone.

[Whoops!]

Myne hasn't failed to function in over 3000 rounds and a gunsmith hasn't touched it since I bought it. That being said, I had to fix a lot of original issues myself and diagnose the issues through proper scientific method.

The issues I found and fixed are going to be found in every open gun with factory stock parts and light recoil or main springs.

Magazine issues

Ejector issues

Extractor issues

Ignition issues

Once these are handled, your gun will be reliable unless something is heavily worn (ex. breach face)

Edited October 8, 2012 by Whoops!

[Alaskapopo]

I bought a used open gun from the forums... I bought some new mags to compliment the mags the gun came with and I put all new springs, followers and base pads on the used mags. Messed around trying to develop a load. (having a hard time with this) Changes out the grip, added a racker and a thumb rest....etc. Tried to shoot the gun in a match and it puked in every way possible. Sent it home with a gunsmith. He worked the gunsmith magic and for a few hundred dollars in parts and a few hundred in labor pronounced the gun GTG. I picked it up from him on match day he handed it to me at the safe table, I stuck it into my holster and proceded to the first stage.... Bang Bang Bang puke... bang puke... light strikes Gunsmith was on my squad, off to the safe table adjust the over travel head off to the next stage. It was very short and involved a classifier remain hot and shoot another stage in the same bay. (I shot a B level on this classifier ) Gun ran great! Althoug I did get to wittness a guy shooting a Glock open gun almost shoot his foot off when re-holstering his hot gun. Next stage Bang Bang Bang puke... Double feed (turns out it was really a FTE that resulted in a double feed) back to the safe table... gunsmith says I need to change the ejector, it is too short. I had already added an AFTEC. I know he is right on this and had planned on doing that but $$$ is a little tight. Next stage involved a reload. Bang bang reload bang puke... nosedive...wtf? Mag issue, ammo issue...driver issue??? Then I was starting to notice, I was on the open squad. 11 shooters and everyone was shooting open except 1 guy, on every stage someone's gun was having issues. FTE, FTF, double feed, FTF... I think everyone had at least 1 stage where the gun didn't run correctly. Is this what I can expect shooting open? Is this the norm?? The gunsmith is putting in the extended ejector this week and told me my rounds were too short 1.220 or so for .38 super. I told him I had to go short because shooting N-105 at 10.5 grains I had to seat them deep so they would be close to what I wanted when I got them to the crimp station They grow because of the compressed load. He said to switch powders so I could get a more consistent OAL. Any way, my gun looks amazing and I think shooting it will be fun! I am just wondering if this is the norm for shooting open.... Aint no fun when you gun don't run...

I have had good luck with mine. But both were used. The first one a Caspian was purchased from a better shooter who had it running great and the only thing I have had to do is replace the big sticks magazine spring once a season.

The STI Steelmaster I just got gave the previous owner some issues with certain mags. I called Bevin Grams up and used his stuff in the mags and they run great so far with about 800 rounds burned through it. I can't believe I have shot that much through it so far but I have. Love this gun. I came with in 1/2 a second of first place at a steel match today.

pat

[Hi-Power Jack]

- trying to develop a load. (having a hard time )

- Tried to shoot the gun in a match and it puked Sent it home with a gunsmith. gunsmith says I need to change the ejector, he is right on this but $$$ are a little tight.

- everyone was shooting open except 1 guy, on every stage someone's gun was having issues.

- The gunsmith told me my rounds were too short 1.220 or so for .38 super.

Paul, I feel your pain.

I wouldn't shoot a match with a gun that needs a new ejector, and I am using ammo

that isn't "ready for prime time". I'd get the gun/ammo running first - much less frustrating.

My Brazos tuned STI TruBor ran for 18 months without a hitch (and this is The Dreadful 9mm major,

not The Foolproof .38 super) - until I needed a couple new parts - been 100% since I replaced the

parts.

Once you get the gun, the ammo and the mags running properly - esp with the .38 super, you should

have a winning combo, and have an awful lot of fun in OPEN. And the gun should run 100%.

And don't forget, if you buy a Brand New gun, it will be "USED" once you test fired it - I wouldn't

worry about having a USED gun - they're all USED

Edited October 8, 2012 by Hi-Power Jack

[moverfive]

One thing that I have to remind people about race guns, open guns in particular, is that each gun has its own personality.

When you step into the open gun realm, part of that personality is that the gun is usually very specific as to what it wants (ammo, power factor, springs, and etc.).

Now I say that because I literally could hand you one of my guns that runs like a top......the moment you start shooting it, the gun could potentially have a high failure rate instantly.

The reasons - the recoil springs that works flawlessly while the gun is in my hands, may not work for how you hold it. You may be feeding the gun a JHP when the gun really wants a CMJ. You could be loading ammo a bit too long for the gun......you may not be loading hot enough. Just to name a few examples of why the gun is not running properly, yet not really the fault of the gun itself.

Another example of where a gun will malfunction - mag release. As I once experienced, the mag release, when used in conjunction with a specific mag, was causing the magazine to sit just a bit high and thus causing the brass being extracted to hit too high on the ejector. End result, erratic ejection and jams. Putting in a new mag release solved the problem.

My point - if the gun was built properly, has been tuned properly, is using properly tuned and sprung magazines, you can still have jams. It just takes some time to understand what is going on, give the gun what it likes, and then you should have a sewing machine for a long time.

[Kriojas]

There are so many variables that come to mind when a gun is not running. Check your springs in the gun alot of times taking some weight off the slide can help improve the overall function of the gun. If that gun has the tru-bore comp get the slide down to about 10.5oz and that could fix the problem. I had the same issue with a tru-bore open gun cut the weight off and it worked from there.

[Dr. Phil]

I never could figure out how the gun knows when I drive through the gate to a match! Seems like that's always where the trouble flares up...

Beyond that, I would never try a new gun out at a match, much less one that the gunsmith just handed me. Guess he didn't function test it either? Maybe that's just me, but, as has been said, it sometimes takes a lot of trial and error before finding the "sweet spot"". Good luck with it...

[Paul-the new guy]

It was just a local match. I was using as more of a shake down/practice than a match. I just wanted to get a feel for the gun and make sure the bugs were worked out. I would not have done that at a large match.

[gunracer38]

Just sold two open used open guns from a friend. They just go bang each time. Another friend bought them both. He will never regret it because they both shoot great. They were made by a good gunsmith. I myself would not sell a gun that had problems. I would fix it before it was sold. Find a gunsmith who builds open guns. I know gunsmiths who claim they have knowledge about open guns BULL.....

[nipplehead]

Just finishing my first year in Open division with my Brazos Pro SX. Close to 10,000 rounds, zero malfunctions...did it cost more then some guns? YES. Knowing what you know now, is the extra expense and craftsmanship worth it YES!!! I have seen a lot of folks suffering with open guns problems, glad i wont be one of them. Get a gun from a top builder and concentrate on shooting!!!

Edited October 8, 2012 by nipplehead

[a matt]

Plus 1 nipplehead !!

[ncopenshooter]

8.5gr of 4756 and hasn't jammed in about 3 years.

[remoandiris]

My Pruitt built 9 Major works flawlessly. Me, on the otherhand, not so flawlessly. I am the 2d owner.

[xsniper]

Plus 1 nipplehead !!

I have to totally agree also.

[Ace38super]

When I started shooting open I had a gun that gave me constant problems. Some of those problems were self-inflicted, as I tried 9x23 brass, then super comp and different powders and bullets. It is a Caspian, which brings mag issues in addition. Finally went back to regular .38 super, which it was built for, and it ran 90% until it ate the top lug off the barrel one stage into my first Florida Open. I decided to talk to a top gunsmith and ended up with a Brazos SC in .38 super. I feed it 4756 and 125 Zero JHP at 1.235. I treat it like a puppy, clean it right and 40,000+ rounds later not one malfunction. Walking up to a stage and not thinking about anything except your stage plan is worth every penny you will spend buying a gun from a recognized gunsmith that has a reputation for building a trouble free gun. I would add listen to what he says to use for ammo and save the experimenting for your hobby gun.

[gng4life]

Getting a reputable gunsmith doesn't mean it can't be a local gunsmith. Yes, I agree that all the big names are great and will build a great pistol. However, we have a local gunsmith in our area that builds great guns and stands behind his work. Several of us have many of his builds in our safes and I (and others) have never had any problems with his work. He is a shooter himself (and pretty good too) and is a master machinist by trade. Don't overlook a possible local gunsmith if you can talk to some of the customers and see some of their work.

Of course there are the ones that you shouldn't go to either. I remember going into a gunsmith shop one time asking about doing a trigger job on my 2011 pistol. His response was, "is that a race gun?" I just walked out.

[blaster113]

Have a Gans built .38SC that I run from time to time. The thing runs and runs and runs. The only malfunctions I can recall were ammo related. High primers, piece of shit brass, etc. The one death jam I had of course occurs on the last stage at a major, but I am certain it was ammo related as I had some hiccups while loading on my old 550. I have a slide racker that I only use to load/unload.

[MoNsTeR]

I have two Bedell 9mm open guns and they run and run, though one of them did need a little break-in and tweaking.

The real lesson is this: you need to be prepared to Do What It Takes to make your gun run. Mag tuning is expensive, do it anyway. Non-mag-related feed issues? Polish the ramp using Brian's method (and polish the extractor too). If that doesn't help have someone who Knows fix it. Extraction issues? Put in an Aftec, fit and tweak it properly. Ejection issues? Either get the ejector tuned by someone who Knows, or go to an offset or horizontal scope mount. Ammo issues? Start from scratch, get advice from someone who Knows. Ditch N105 for now, it's a PITA. Hammer following? Throw the whole trigger group in the scrap bin and start over with an EGW or C&S/EE kit.

What you should not do, under any circumstances, is just continue to suffer. I see it time and time again, someone will have a gun that doesn't run and they either do nothing and just continue to fail, or fiddle with it ineffectually for years on end. Just bite the bullet. Either get a gun from a really good smith, or send your lemon to one and have them fix it up. It's going to cost money. How much is it worth to not be That Guy whose gun never works?

[Big Guy]

...I am going to go longer and am switching to 3N38. Like I said, more than anything I was shocked at all of the issues that happened to the open shooters on my squad. 3 or 4 of them are going to nationals and they all had an issue or two...

Let me know if you are interested in getting rid of the N-105. I'll buy it from you.

Just in case, I'll be shooting Port Malabar this Saturday.

Mario.

[gose]

My Tanfoglio was a jam-o-matic when I got it, but after replacing some springs, extractor and getting new mags, its now been running jam-free for ~1500 rounds or so