ima45dv8 Posted April 1, 2012 Share Posted April 1, 2012 I recently closed a thread inquiring about safety incidents at matches. Too often those discussions veer off into anecdotal reports of injuries, or even first-hands accounts. Sometimes incidents at matches other than USPSA get confused into the mix. Regardless of their origin, those discussions generally share one fatal flaw. . . .they focus on rare yet sensational stories, thereby overshadowing one extremely important point -- just how safe this sport truly is. I'll give a favorite example. Maybe you know of one or two (?). At the 2010 Area 6 Championship 384 competitors fired over 105,000 rounds in 3 days, and the worst injury I'm aware of was a turned ankle. The "Field of Steel" course cause a lot of hurt feelings, but that's another story... But why is it so safe? I believe it's because of our layered approach to safely assisting shooters through the various courses of fire using multiple Range Officers to oversee the activity, and the fact that DQ's are for the match and not just for the stage. Is the penalty harsh? Yeah, it is. But it's a safety net to catch someone who isn't fully on their game that day. A DQ doesn't mean they are bad people or are consistently unsafe. It simply means that for whatever reason -- on that day -- their head wasn't where it needed to be. By stopping that shooter at the first infraction of one of the basic 4 rules of gun safety, we prevent the generally catastrophic results we read about when someone breaks TWO of those rules. Consider the following chart (SOURCE: U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, Directorate for Epidemiology, National Electronic Injury Surveillance System (NEISS): It tells me that we should NEVER let someone shoot a stage while riding a bicycle. Those things are dangerous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 That can't be right. Hockey is much more dangerous and difficult than gbolf. My ego requires this to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Why is our sport so safe?? Because when people break the DQ'able rules they hang their head, pack their gun, and in most cases call it quits themselves. While we as RO's might be issuing the official DQ the shooter has already issued that DQ to themselves. We know how dangerous firearms are so we abide by the strictness of those rules. What is another reason our sport is so safe? When we see newer shooters make stupid moves because it is what they saw in the movies we correct them. We try to correct potential problems before they become real problems. We advise them on suitable holsters, mag pouches, and belts that have a proven safety record in our sport. We are not afraid to ask questions about what works, just as we are not afraid to answer questions or loan equipment. I think one of the reasons we are such a friendly sport is because we subconsciously accept the dangers of out sport and will do everything in our power to see that people are outfitted with the correct gear and information on how to use it. Your squadmate breaks something, we all offer our own equipment just to ensure they have the proper gear to finish the match rather then have them try to finish it with substandard equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 That can't be right. Hockey is much more dangerous and difficult than gbolf. My ego requires this to be true. How many hockey players have you ever heard of being struck by lightning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdboytyler Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 A more accurate chart would show number of injuries/ number of participants per year. Gymnastics is a high injury sport, but few participants. When looked at from at injuries/participants, my educated guess (plus what I remember from more recent data) would be the following, with #1 being the most dangerous: 1. Gymnastics 2. Football/Hockey 3. Snowboarding and Skiing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Sailboat racing is probably not on the list only because it is a relatively "small" sport. In an average year, we "lose" on the order of a dozen competitors. Like, lost-at-sea, never seen again. Not counting untold numbers of injuries. In a "good" race, pretty much everyone will be bleeding by the time you cross the finish line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 yeh i had it out with a Bass pro shop manager, they had all kinds of OH MY GOD DONT LET A KID WITHIN A MILE OF A GUN < GUNS are BAd Guns kill kids etc etc signs and posters all over the hunting gun area, The conversation started with "heh a#$hat" how come you dont have propaganda signs like that in the swimming area ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 That can't be right. Hockey is much more dangerous and difficult than gbolf. My ego requires this to be true. You can't get struck by lightning out in an open field in hockey the way you can in golf! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcCracken Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 That can't be right. Hockey is much more dangerous and difficult than gbolf. My ego requires this to be true. How many 35-54yo people play golf versus play hockey? It would be better to show ER trips per 1000 players per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 That can't be right. Hockey is much more dangerous and difficult than gbolf. My ego requires this to be true. Your ego should be happy to consider that most hockey players (like most dirtbike racerss) are fairly young, and all are fairly fit and pretty tough as well (not likely to go to the ER for a wimpy broken collarbone, or other non-serious injury), whereas most golfers are old geezers with one foot in the grave, so the golf 'injuries' probably include strokes, heart-attacks, gout, alzheimer's, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilkenstein Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Anybody watch the Tour of Flanders this weekend? Always so much carnage in professional cycling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 That can't be right. Hockey is much more dangerous and difficult than gbolf. My ego requires this to be true. Might be true..... I bet those stats are not adjusted for population size..... ....there's most likely far more golfers than ice hockey players.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummm Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I must be missing something -- the thread is about USPSA's safety record, but the graph in the OP has no shooting-related sports listed, let alone USPSA specifically. Shooting sports could be 10,000 times more dangerous than the most dangerous sport listed, or less dangerous than the least dangerous sport listed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braxton1 Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 (edited) I must be missing something -- the thread is about USPSA's safety record, but the graph in the OP has no shooting-related sports listed, let alone USPSA specifically. Shooting sports could be 10,000 times more dangerous than the most dangerous sport listed, or less dangerous than the least dangerous sport listed.... I'd put money on the "less dangerous than the least dangerous sport listed" answer. The first tick mark on that graph was "10,000 Emergency Room Visits". Gymnastics went approximately 1/10th the way across that first tick, so that would estimate approximately 1000 ER visits for the little spinning/swinging/jumping kids. If the shooting sports were anywhere near that rate, given the much higher number of participants, we'd DEFINITELY be in that chart (probably somewhere near the top). And considering the higher average age of our participants and the outdoor venue of most events, we're also vulnerable to other maladies that wouldn't affect a 9-year old gymnast. Because of the rules and the inherent sense-of-responsibility of most shooters, most of us can expect to go through our careers with no injuries worse than a twisted ankle, but probably nothing worse than "slide bite" or the infamous "Oh, so THIS is what happens when you try to stick your index finger AND a magazine into the magwell...". And my "higher number of participants" includes not just USPSA and IDPA shooters (formalized competitions), but also every person that walks into a range and practices. CPSC would likely lump them all together for statistical purposes. Edited April 6, 2012 by Braxton1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpops Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 In the Aviation world we refer to the "Swiss cheese theory" where we look at an accident (or near) and consider the factors that led to the end result, ie all the holes line up. I feel USPSA, staff, shooters, rules, etc do a great job at stopping the alignment of the holes! When you pull that off....you are safe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 In the Aviation world we refer to the "Swiss cheese theory" where we look at an accident (or near) and consider the factors that led to the end result, ie all the holes line up. I feel USPSA, staff, shooters, rules, etc do a great job at stopping the alignment of the holes! When you pull that off....you are safe! Great Explanation. I consider flying and USPSA very similar in the "risk" endeavors area. We have multiple ways of keeping the "dirty side down" during a match... Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 We get DGed done not guit or you will get a DQ ahhh maybe. It's one and done ... For the day anyway. That might have something to do with our safety record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Yeah, the chart just measures number of ER visits per activity - it reflects both the potential danger of the activity and the popularity of it. What would be more useful or accurate would be data that shows number of ER visits per, say, 10,000 people participating per year. They left equestrian sports off - but those are clearly high on the list of the type of metric I'm suggesting (in fact, there are laws in a number of states that hold equestrian facilities harmless for injuries that occur to people riding horses on their property and/or under their direction At one point, I showed statistics that suggested practical shooting is safer than bowling, of all things! The typical injury in our sport is what Mark indicates - some kind of sports injury related to running, falling, etc. Events that involve extra holes are extremely rare. If they weren't, I don't think we'd be playing anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted April 7, 2012 Events that involve extra holes are extremely rare. If they weren't, I don't think we'd be playing allowed to play anymore I edited your comment above Dave, in hopes of illustrating that if this sport were dangerous enough to get on the radar of, ooohhh, the CDC's MMWR (Mobidity & Mortality Weekly Report) statistics, well-meaning individuals and law-makers would have raised holy Hell and we'd have been banned from what we do. "If it saves just one child..." That the shooting sports didn't show on the graph I provided says something to me about the very few number of incidents related to our sport. Curling wasn't on there either, so it seems we're at least as safe as using brooms to direct large, slow-moving stones sliding down an icy bowling alley. *I actually went to a Curling match in Montreal once. While not an active participant on the ice, I did almost injure my elbow from lifting all the beer the competitors wives bought me in the clubhouse. You'd think they never heard a true Southern accent before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Antichrome Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Very good, very helpful post starting this thread. I live a few blocks away from a high school sports stadium. EVERY event there has an ambulance parked at the end of the field...and they get used on a regular basis. I've gone Curling. Fun, harder than it looks, always involves beer;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Another factor is that we just plain NEED to be safe. - If someone gets killed in a Nascar, football, hockey, parachuting, etc. it's considered a tragic accident, and everyone accepts that each of these activities bring with it a certain percentage of "breakage". You don't hear calls to shut down all stock car racing if a driver gets killed, or ban parachuting if a participant bounces. - If someone gets killed in a traditional sport, it is accepted as a risk of the activity. Absent gross negligence, nobody is going to get indicted because someone becomes a quad at a football game or gets killed on the racetrack. An accidental shooting in my state (and no doubt some others) will virtually always result in criminal charges unless the shooter is a police officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztecdriver Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I've gone Curling. Fun, harder than it looks, always involves beer;-) DRIFT -- but it sounds like it's the north's version of horseshoes or - my new favorite, if not just for the name - cornhole... Excuses to drink beer, is what I say... Back to the subject... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Very good, very helpful post starting this thread. I live a few blocks away from a high school sports stadium. EVERY event there has an ambulance parked at the end of the field...and they get used on a regular basis. I've gone Curling. Fun, harder than it looks, always involves beer;-) Lack of beer is about the only complaint I have with our sport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gino_aki Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Very good, very helpful post starting this thread. I live a few blocks away from a high school sports stadium. EVERY event there has an ambulance parked at the end of the field...and they get used on a regular basis. I've gone Curling. Fun, harder than it looks, always involves beer;-) Lack of beer is about the only complaint I have with our sport Our club doesn't lack beer...when the scores are being read off after all the props and targets are put away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadslinger275 Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) That can't be right. Hockey is much more dangerous and difficult than gbolf. My ego requires this to be true. The age on the chart probably affects the stats... I don't see a lot of 35+ year old men playing hockey even at the professional level. For younger athletes I agree with you 100%. NEVERMIND I'M STUPID SOMEONE ALREADY SAID THIS!!! Edited April 8, 2012 by leadslinger275 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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