Higher cost of shooting

[professor]

...Inflation is affecting everything - not just shooting. I am thinking we are in for some hard times in the near future.

I've got to disagree. IMHO, the increase in ammo cost is not due to "inflation". It is due to decreased supply availability. And the decreased supply is causing some people, with the available money, to buy up as much as they can of what's available. That drives down supplies of ammo and ammo components even more, which pushes up the costs. There's a big difference between this situation and inflation.

Inflation is the generalized increase in costs of goods and services across the board. The inflation rate [2.48% for year-to-date] is at its lowest level in the past 4 years. Unemployment levels are at 4.7%, where "full" employment is typically associated with an unemployment rate of 6%. Nothing there to indicate "...hard times in the near future." http://www.inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Rate/CurrentInflation.asp

http://www.bls.gov/

Current Inflation Rate

Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Ave

2007 2.08% 2.42% 2.78% 2.57% 2.69% 2.69% 2.36% 1.97% 2.76% -- -- -- 2.48%

2006 3.99% 3.60% 3.36% 3.55% 4.17% 4.32% 4.15% 3.82% 2.06% 1.31% 1.97% 2.54% 3.24%

2005 2.97% 3.01% 3.15% 3.51% 2.80% 2.53% 3.17% 3.64% 4.69% 4.35% 3.46% 3.42% 3.39%

2004 1.93% 1.69% 1.74% 2.29% 3.05% 3.27% 2.99% 2.65% 2.54% 3.19% 3.52% 3.26% 2.68%

2003 2.60% 2.98% 3.02% 2.22% 2.06% 2.11% 2.11% 2.16% 2.32% 2.04% 1.77% 1.88% 2.27%

2002 1.14% 1.14% 1.48% 1.64% 1.18% 1.07% 1.46% 1.80% 1.51% 2.03% 2.20% 2.38% 1.59%

2001 3.73% 3.53% 2.92% 3.27% 3.62% 3.25% 2.72% 2.72% 2.65% 2.13% 1.90% 1.55% 2.83%

2000 2.74% 3.22% 3.76% 3.07% 3.19% 3.73% 3.66% 3.41% 3.45% 3.45% 3.45% 3.39% 3.38%

However, if you talk to the ammo makers, the lack of lead/alloy to make the bullets and primers to make the ammo is driving up their prices, not manufacturing, labor, shipping costs. And the decreased availability of major manufacturer's bullets and primers is hitting the reloader hard. So far, powder doesn't seem to be as much of a problem, except for the increased government restrictions on transporting and storing all ammo-related components.

But does the cost of the bullets rank up there with a reason for reduced shooting, or reduced attendance at matches? If you look at the numbers, transportation to and from the matches, match fees, hotel fees, etc., make the bullet cost a small portion of the total.

When I started shooting/reloading in late 2000, it cost me about 6 cents per round to load 38 Spl ammo. Ammo cost for a 150 round club match was $9. Current costs are 12.2 to 13.6 cents per round [158 gr RNL or Rainier 158 gr plated bullet, 5.8 gr Titegroup power, Federal 100 primer], so now the ammo cost is $18 to $20. No big deal, unless I can't get the components at all.

Apparently, the resources are going to make ammo for the military. We ARE in the middle of a shooting war, so shortages of those resources are to be expected.

Certain factions of the country are decrying what they see as a war where we at home aren't being asked to "sacrifice". By that, they apparently mean that federal taxes aren't as high as they would like to see them, we have access to just about every consumer product under the sun, and we aren't being asked to crawl into a hole and suffer in the cold and dark [a la Jimmy Carter "general malaise" economy]. If you want, you can consider the current restriction on available supplies of ammo and ammo components as our sacrifice for the war effort. Also, the military is putting that ammo to better use than we will playing our shooting games. In the meantime, the skills we are developing and refining in our shooting games are helping the war effort, by improving the shooting skills of our people in the military.

Edited October 22, 2007 by professor

[j2fast]

If ya got twins ... then you got 2 of the same thing ... sell one of 'em

Now that's funny, I don't care who ya are....

My wife thinks I should part with one of my twin SP01's and I don't want to do that either so I can understand keeping both kinds.

[MikeFoley]

Two things I gotta have regardless of the price are gasoline and ammo. Everything else is negotiable.

[BSeevers]

I am just gonna shoot slower so it lasts longer.

[rvb]

If you want, you can consider the current restriction on available supplies of ammo and ammo components as our sacrifice for the war effort. Also, the military is putting that ammo to better use than we will playing our shooting games.

This is the way I like to think about it when I complain I can't get bullets/primers. The people that need them and put it on the line should and do have first priority. Unlike "The Greatest Generation," bullets are all I have to "ration...." not meat, not gas, not rubber, etc.

I also agree the ammo craziness is more related to demand than economy.

I have an article I kept from the AP dated 23 July '07 talking about Lake City putting out 1.4 Billion rounds per year to keep up with current demand. In 2000 it was making 350 million/year. I wonder in a couple years if we might see component and ammo prices drop once the war is over or nearing an end? This article talked about Lake City's planning for the future as demand will eventually drop off when we eventually transition to peace time, and plans to prevent the shortages and "ramp up" time needed to get into full production as happened in the war on terror over the last few years.

Another interesting fact from the article, in 1978 there were 318 plants involved in making ammo, in 1995... less than 100. Apparently now there are around 170.

I certainly agree that ammo prices don't keep me from matches... "political capital" with the wife is the main limiter (aka 'guilt trip' for being gone all day)! Total match day cost (~$80 w/ gas/food/ammo/entrey-fee) makes me skip a lot of smaller matches (mostly means I skip idpa so I can shoot -more- ammo as to get the most fun out of my match dollar as I mentioned above). Ammo cost alone has made me practice better (a good thing) and dryfire a LOT (also a good thing), but doesn't keep me from matches in itself.

-rvb

Edited October 22, 2007 by rvb

[steel1212]

I am just gonna shoot slower so it lasts longer.

RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT lol

I usually practice on sat and shoot the match on sunday every week. I want to get a marvel or something similar topend for my limited gun so I can practice with live fire minus the recoil and just use the real ammo for matches. I already dryfire, I'm no PB mind you, but I do what I can. Bullet prices will have to get real stupid before I stop playing. My other passion that I've had to put on the back burner is drag racing, now if you want to talk expensive, this is nothing. My weekend warrior has turned into a cruiser basically cause I can't keep up with the Jones's wallet!

[boo radley]

However, if you talk to the ammo makers, the lack of lead/alloy to make the bullets and primers to make the ammo is driving up their prices, not manufacturing, labor, shipping costs. And the decreased availability of major manufacturer's bullets and primers is hitting the reloader hard.

I'm with you here.

Apparently, the resources are going to make ammo for the military.

I'm more dubious. Cite, please?

In any event, the increasing prices are painful because they limit practice.

I'm more concerned about the market demand. Making bullets seems like a tough business -- even if you pass on the increase in the commodity prices to the consumer. We take it for granted there are legions of eager shooters, ready and willing to pay "fair prices" for quality bullets, but maybe that really isn't the case.

[hdgun]

It's my only sport/passion and my wife fully understands it.

It's ipsc or my sanity.

+++++1

[mike4045]

I can afford to shoot, but I went with cheaper components. I am going to lead and buying as much as possible to stock up before they go up again. I am also cutting out IDPA shooting. Too far to drive for too little shooting. I bought a couple of 22 pistols to practice with. I also put away the open gun to concentrate on limited.

[dcarter]

Same here. Except for the "wife fully understands" part. As for the ammo, I'm lucky enough, at this point, not to have to worry about it. I shoot production and don't have to buy my ammo. If I switch divisions I'm going to have to start worrying.

[DonT]

It's not easy but I've been buying up everything that I can afford in the way of reloading supplies for a couple of months now because I believe the prices will only get higher

DonT

[HoMiE]

Instead of throwing recycleables in the bin for the trash man to take away, I take them to collection centers myself and get cash back. Not a lot of money, but it pays for at least 1 club match a month.

[AzShooter]

I was lucky enough to stock up on primers and bullets before I got too sick to shoot. Now I have about 30K of bullets and primers so I'm set for this year and probably next.

My biggest change is to shoot a lot of .22 ammo out of an old S&W Model 18 to practice accuaracy. I also shoot a Ruger 22/45 so the cost of practice has gone down tremendously.

I shoot about 200 .22s and then 100 .38s at a session now so when I finish up it's with my competition gun and ammo.

[MichiganShootist]

I'm retired and on a fixed income so I will have to make some changes.... so my vote would have been for "most of the above"

1. I dipped into my savings early this Summer and bought enough reloading components (other than powder) to run me two or three years. It hurt the pocket book but If an emergency comes up I'm sure I can sell Zero 230s and Federal primers for more than they cost me. Some components are up 30% already... so I guess I should have stock piled even more.

2. I plan on more dry fire and less indoor practice this Winter. Last Winter I drove 90 miles (each way) to an indoor practice session almost every week.... the gas and the cost of 4,000 or so rounds I burned up during that period has got to be cut down.

3. Next year I will probably be forced to cut down my participation in out of town major matches. This year I shot in 7 regional/sectional/state matches and the Single Stack nationals. That's well over a grand in hotels and another big chunk of change for gas and meals. If I don't cut the number... then I'll do a better job of sharing rides and rooms and in selecting the matches.

4. If I switch back to my Single Stack (from revolver) this season..... I will shoot my 9mm Springer in practice more often and use up the stock pile of "white box" I've been accumulating (Hell I've got some that has a price sticker under $8.00 )

5. I'm shopping for a 22 conversion kit for my SS 1911.

Thank God I have a Honda Accord that gets me 32 mpg on the highway..... cause I live in a rural area and drive over 100 miles to most of the regular "club" matches around the state.

Edited October 23, 2007 by MichiganShootist

[XD Niner]

As many have said, ammo is about the least of my shooting costs. The cost of a couple of Open guns, two Production guns and an SS and the associated mags, belts and holsters make the cost of ammo seem pretty insiginficant. Then add in the travel costs and fees for both local and major matches and the ammo cost all but disappears.

The component supply situation seems to be a bigger issue for me. I now have 10K of Zero 38 Super 125 grain JHPs. I've had these on backorder for almost three months. Given the current situtation, as soon as I am down below 5K I intend to reorder.

Edited October 23, 2007 by XD Niner

[bgary]

It's not easy but I've been buying up everything that I can afford in the way of reloading supplies for a couple of months now because I believe the prices will only get higher

+1

B

[sfinney]

Lets see.....

We have rising ammo costs - powder/primers/bullets/brass - everything. For those on a tighter budget, it may be the smaller part of a matches overall cost, especially when you factor in all the other misc costs (gas/auto/food/practice ammo, etc)...... but it is the straw that breaks the camels back when you have budgeted "X" amount for shooting overall, and now with increased ammo costs, its now "X + Y", and you don't know where to get the "Y" from.

With a 2 year old now, and another on the way, I have even more increased costs to budget for recently, much more than just ammo.

My solution is/will be a combination of several of the poll choices:

Shoot less matches

Live fire less, dry fire more

Sell all my expensive guns, extra equipment, and use the money for bills and future ammo components

Shoot a cheaper gun and/or Division

Shoot cheaper bullets/powder (I am about ready to go full time cast lead with KEAD bullets, when my moly's are depleted. Jacketed? Whats that?)

Matter of fact, I've probably not shot a match in 2 months now (due to my schedule, rather than budget)...... but I haven't really missed it much. Maybe I need a break anyway, nows as good as time as any I suppose.

[LPatterson]

I echo the sentiments of michiganshootist being retired & on social security and getting a whopping 2.3% raise in Jan. My prime expense is gas as the closest local match is 160 miles 1 way so it is $50+ for 100-150 rounds. What I will do is change the style of practice & shoot more 22 & 9mm, thats after I shoot the 2000 rounds of Precision I have loaded for the 45.

I will continue to buy what I want, just put it on the credit card & when I die the kids have to pay them off before they get any left over IRA money.

[Jim Norman]

LeRoy,

Not to change the subject....

You got a 2.3% raise. A lot of people that work hard employing people in small businesses, especially in the constructin industry gave out raises, but took either NO Raise or a PAY CUT in the last year. A 2.% increase in sales and profits over last year wouyld have been cause for many for a grand celebration.

I now return us to our regularly scheduled thread regarding the price of bullets

Jim

[et45]

More dryfire.Go back to the 1911 and shoot lead bullets.I have 3 five gallon buckets of .45 ACP brass and I love the nice round hole a 200gr SWC makes in the target

[zxd9]

I'm shooting less matches but I've cut way back on live fire training. My monthly round count has been virtually cut in half.

[LPatterson]

Jim,

You need to be in the construction business out here as Congress is spending 150-200 million on new housing at Malmstrom AFB. In the Missoula area contractors are having trouble finding qualified workers for all the projects. Pay here is lower than back east.

[vluc]

If it's not this it's that. Gas prices, availability of components, etc., etc., etc. Our hobby is not a cheap one. Heck, golf green fees and cart rentals are going up, too. You have to love a free market economy!

I'll just keep on doing what I have been doing. I'm with the professor and Ryan on this one. Short term pain for long term gain. Our sacrifice to the fine men and women who are out there protecting our continuing ability to do what we do.

Looking ahead, once the big part of the shooting war is over, there ought to be a surplus of 5.56 out there....

[Hank Ellis]

Yeah, the prices have gone up and I feel the drain on the checking account. But if you're going to compete, then compete.

The current load I'm using isn't as accurate as I want it to be. I know I'm giving away points due to it. So I'm working up several loads to see if I can tighten the groups. And whatever comes up on top will be my load. Price isn't an issue.

I will probably go away from lower cost components for practice. I'm beginning to believe that there should be no such thing as 'practice ammo'. If you go practice for the match and you are not using in practice what you are using for the match then the whole practice experience is not complete. One practice load I'm using feels totally different that my match load. Same PF, same powder, different bullet, different feel.

So how am I offsetting the cost? Make every shot count. I always have gone to the range with a plan and a list of drills on what I need to improve on. I'll be even more disciplined to not turn powder into noise. Cutting back on matches isn't an option since due to work I can only do one a month anyway.

Maybe the best way to describe the approach I'm taking is quality over quantity. Shooting a lot isn't going to make me a better shooter, but some quality shooting will.

Just last week a guy who has been shooting clays longer than I've been living (I'm 49) and I were having this same discussion about ammunition costs. He said that sometime in the '70s the cost of lead shot went through the roof and hit $25 a bag. Outrageous at the time. Whatever market forces drove the price up corrected itself and the prices went down after a while. Be patient, tighten your belt if you have to, but be patient.

[sargenv]

Thankfully I made a hedge buy on a lot of components before prices went up or supply was exhausted. I will likely keep shooting, just maybe a different division and will pick up components as I can in large or small amounts as the need arises. If it gets too costly, I'll still go to matches, but maybe instead of shooting, I'll do more match admin.