Limited optics Vs Open

[pskys2]

On 4/26/2023 at 3:21 PM, mreed911 said:

 

Yes, without a comp.  I know that doesn't absorb it all, but I'm not suggesting 9 major on a 9 lb spring.  9mm minor is about 130PF, 9mm "duty" 147gr is about 150PF, 9mm major is about 170PF.  Most of the 9 major folks are running 7-9 lb springs with no significant differences in wear, but they're running guns made for 9 major.

 

If we're talking about major PF, there's no real difference in 9mm vs. 40 at the same PF in terms of recoil impulse.  The bigger difference is 9 major is often loaded longer than the OAL for 9 minor, requiring a chamber reamed for 9 major... just for safety.  I have no idea if 2011 manufacturers are reaming deeper (or not) to indicate support/lack of support.

 

Some people want the additional recoil impulse for the higher scoring bands major offers.  It's why we don't see a lot of open minor, but to your point I've never seen a 9 major open gun without a comp.

In the'80's Had a buddy who did with a Browning hipower, beat it to pieces quickly.

[mreed911]

I'm ready.  Let's do this!

 

[BritinUSA]

Doesn't it have to be mounted to the slide ?

[Alleycatdad]

Yeah, frame mounting is specifically not allowed.  Welcome back to open...but if you were closer I'd keep you company.

 

SA

[Makicjf]

On 4/28/2023 at 12:41 AM, mreed911 said:

I'm ready.  Let's do this!

 

If that ever needs a new home, let me know!

Jason

[SufferInSilence]

How’s the overall participation going for LO nationally so far.  I shot 2 matches (a third coming this Sunday) and so far in my club is was only 4 people on Tuesday and 1 on Friday.  

[shred]

Today's Austin APSC match: 

Open	15
Limited Optics	8
Carry Optics	27
Pcc	4
Limited	5
Production	2

 

Today's CAPS Special Classifier match near Austin:

 

Open	9
Limited	6
Limited 10	2
Limited Optics	33
Production	4
Revolver	0
Single Stack	2
Carry Optics	24
PCC	12

 

Signup for Temple match tomorrow

Limited	4
Limited 10	2
Open	3
Production	0
Revolver	0
Single Stack	0
Carry Optics	12
Pcc	0
Limited Optics	9

 

[mreed911]

I tried the CAPS match today.  I tried too much.  Tried to shoot LO and PCC... and help RO and scorekeep... on top of a bad week (we let folks go at work recently, not fun).  I could have put on boxing gloves and not done any worse.  Anything I could screw up I did - stage plan, stage directions, reloads... mental state was completely shot.

 

Came home, grabbed my steel, went to the range and practiced with 500 rounds.  Draw from hands low.  Draw from surrender.  All the basics.  Everything worked, so I'll try again tomorrow at a normal match with one gun.  Got my confidence back at practice and still love the gun - just couldn't get the mind working today.

[Archer]

Recently I was tapped to run technology for my local club's steel challenge, as the regular guy was unavailable.  I decided to only shoot one gun rather than the two or three I would normally run for an SCSA match.  Despite the minor distraction of running the iPads, wifi and timer sync, I had two of my best stage times ever.  Sometimes, when you have distractions, doing one thing as well as you can can be useful.  

 

As one of Clint Eastwood's more iconic characters once said, "a man's got to know his limitations".

 

Anyway, back on topic, I feel that the new appendix D9 could have been slightly better refined, because right now I'm in a cordial debate with one of my club CRO's about whether it's allowed to run a CO Shadow 2 DA/SA cocked and locked for LO, as one of my squad guys wants to do in our first upcoming match allowing LO. 

 

The fact that there's a question about it from a highly experienced and competent NROI certified CRO tells me maybe it could have been made a little more clear.  (Seems clear to me that it should be OK, but I'm not a CRO).

[MHicks]

I'm far from a rules expert, but what would make someone think it wouldn't be allowed to start cocked and locked when shooting LO? It seems clear to me. Hammer down in CO, hammer down or cocked and locked in LO.

[Matt1911]

Double post

Edited May 7, 2023 by Matt1911

[Matt1911]

Just now, Matt1911 said:

I’ve shot my CZ SP-01 cocked and locked when I tried my hand at Lim Minor a few times. 

 

[Archer]

1 hour ago, MHicks said:

I'm far from a rules expert, but what would make someone think it wouldn't be allowed to start cocked and locked when shooting LO? It seems clear to me. Hammer down in CO, hammer down or cocked and locked in LO.

 

Agreed, that is how I see it as well.

[OPENB]

For that matter, why couldn’t he run it DA hammer down in LO if he wanted? 

[RJH]

3 hours ago, Archer said:

Recently I was tapped to run technology for my local club's steel challenge, as the regular guy was unavailable.  I decided to only shoot one gun rather than the two or three I would normally run for an SCSA match.  Despite the minor distraction of running the iPads, wifi and timer sync, I had two of my best stage times ever.  Sometimes, when you have distractions, doing one thing as well as you can can be useful.  

 

As one of Clint Eastwood's more iconic characters once said, "a man's got to know his limitations".

 

Anyway, back on topic, I feel that the new appendix D9 could have been slightly better refined, because right now I'm in a cordial debate with one of my club CRO's about whether it's allowed to run a CO Shadow 2 DA/SA cocked and locked for LO, as one of my squad guys wants to do in our first upcoming match allowing LO. 

 

The fact that there's a question about it from a highly experienced and competent NROI certified CRO tells me maybe it could have been made a little more clear.  (Seems clear to me that it should be OK, but I'm not a CRO).

 

Running the gun cocked and locked is completely fine in limited optics. Anybody that says otherwise is probably not that competent cro. But I hear so much crap that is completely not in the rule books from different ro's/cros it's not even funny 

 

 

1 hour ago, OPENB said:

For that matter, why couldn’t he run it DA hammer down in LO if he wanted? 

He could definitely do this as well

 

 

[shred]

Don't look in D9 for that, look in 8.1 "Firearm Ready Condition"

 

Quote

 

8.1.2.3 “Selective action”–chamber loaded with hammer fully down, or chamber loaded, and hammer cocked with external safety engaged. (see Divisions in Appendix D).

8.1.2.4 “Striker fired/Safe Action” – chamber loaded, handgun cocked, external safety engaged if present.

 

Win bar bets and annoy friends with the second part of 8.1.2.4...

 

[Sarge]

4 hours ago, Archer said:

O. 

The fact that there's a question about it from a highly experienced and competent NROI certified CRO tells me maybe it could have been made a little more clear.  

He may be experienced but he certainly isn’t as competent as you think. 

[Archer]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

He may be experienced but he certainly isn’t as competent as you think. 

He’s a hard working RO and I’m disinclined to be very critical of him.  I stand by my view that the appendix could be clearer on this subject.

[ColoradoNick]

Am I looking at the calculator correctly and seeing HHF's for LO are lower than Limited?

[Zachjet]

On 4/24/2023 at 10:04 AM, zzt said:

 

And yet, I can pick out as much 40sw brass from the brass buckets at the range as I want.  The people shooting it are not shooting 2011 Limited guns.  They are mostly plastic guns.  Some are shooting reloads.  Others various factory.

 

Right about the same time I move to production from CO, I was thinking of getting a major limited top end for my tanfo since I found a love for iron sights. I cleaned out my clubs brass bin of close to (5) 5 gallon buckets, and only got around 200 .40’s.  That’s when I decided not to get a 40 top end, and stick to production.

[shred]

12 minutes ago, ColoradoNick said:

Am I looking at the calculator correctly and seeing HHF's for LO are lower than Limited?

Probably trying to correct for major/minor scoring.  I'd start with CO HHFs and bump up a little for the magwell, but I'm not in charge...

 

[motosapiens]

12 hours ago, Archer said:

He’s a hard working RO and I’m disinclined to be very critical of him.  I stand by my view that the appendix could be clearer on this subject.

the rules are 100% clear. not sure where the disconnect is. Perhaps your RO friend just didn't read them.

[Superkaratemonkeyfighter]

I Wonder how many DQ’s for new shooters with SA guns holstering without the safety on. 

[mreed911]

I didn't see any of those this weekend, but definitely had one person step into the shooting box for a stage, unholster and start taking sight pictures before I could say anything, including "make ready."

[shred]

I almost tried to decock my 2011 a couple times but caught it before anyone noticed.