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What’s your secret? Da/Sa first shot transition.


Jonesjohnm
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I’m a recently new shooter to the CO division. I spent my first few months with a 34 and then move to a complete Cz S2 build from CGW. It’s been a few months now and I’m very happy with the pistol, I just need to better myself using this type action. I’m having issues with the first shot anxiety especially on Virginia count stages. I’m taking way too long trying to line up and squeeze the trigger for a controlled clean shot.

 

Typically, even if out of my desired sequence, I shoot a full target first to ensure a decent hit, before proceeding to any tuxedo/ partial cover targets. This is not ideal, however it’s what I feel most comfortable doing at this time. I’d like to work on getting over this

 

What drills have you developed to work on this that first DA shot? Thanks in advanced.

 

 

 

 

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um.... practice?

 

DA group shooting?

 

Lots of draws to tight partials, or mini-poppers?

 

lots of trigger pulls.... I used to do a few minutes every day of a drill where i would simply put the sights on a tight target and at the beep, try to pull the trigger all the way through before the beep finished, without moving the sights.

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Basically you just have to prove to yourself that you can be accurate in DA. There really is nothing other than practice (both live and dry) to accomplish this. The best in the game still have a fairly stout DA first shot - so trying to lighten the DA pull to eternity is really the wrong way to go about all of this.

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So, I have the same issue and have bypassed it. That is, I just pull the hammer back as I raise the gun and only fire single action. I practice this move at the range and found it easier and faster then to fire first shot double action and then re adjust for single action. Just pull the hammer and fire only SA!

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First get confident that you can pull the trigger in DA quickly and without disturbing the sight alignment. A good dry fire drill I use for this is to use a shot-timer. Bring the gun up on your dryfire target with your finger on the DA trigger. When you hear the beep, pull the trigger straight back without disturbing the sight alignment. The goal is to be able to pull it so fast that the hammer drops before the starting beep ends.

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So, I have the same issue and have bypassed it. That is, I just pull the hammer back as I raise the gun and only fire single action. I practice this move at the range and found it easier and faster then to fire first shot double action and then re adjust for single action. Just pull the hammer and fire only SA!


Not sure about USPSA but that’s not legal in IPSC (besides it being slow as hell)


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Are you sure about being not IPSC legal? All I'm doing is pulling back the hammer, which one has to do anyway for all manner of misfires. A bit slower, yes, but having every trigger pull be consistent is worth it to me at my level. And, all things get faster with practice.

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not if you are practicing bad. 
"Practice doesnt make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect".... D.R. Middlebrook

You need to quit that cocking nonsense, because eventually you will want to improve. Much easier to learn how to do something, than it is to UNLEARN one thing, then learn another.

Far as the OP,,  Get you a revolver, shoot that for awhile. I was horrible when I started. I pretty much only did hunting and targets with revolver and shot SA's or cocked my DA's. But then got into bowling pins, where we have a revolver division.. Just took some dry fire and DA practice. I am fine now.

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First get confident that you can pull the trigger in DA quickly and without disturbing the sight alignment. A good dry fire drill I use for this is to use a shot-timer. Bring the gun up on your dryfire target with your finger on the DA trigger. When you hear the beep, pull the trigger straight back without disturbing the sight alignment. The goal is to be able to pull it so fast that the hammer drops before the starting beep ends.


This sounds like a very practical/ helpful drill. I will try to give 15 minutes or so a day to this. This seems like a good approach. Thank you.


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3 hours ago, Matt1 said:

 


Not sure about USPSA but that’s not legal in IPSC (besides it being slow as hell)


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This is not IPSC legal since that the first shot in prod division needs to be DA.

BUT... if you manage under the practice/match stress  pull the trigger and place the hammer in half travel/cocked position before final sight picture/sight alignment it will be more or less the same ..... and it is done regularly by competitors. Attention ..... ND risk is high meaning that your practice need to be really intensive ..... otherwise in best case DQ is guaranteed.   

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13 hours ago, Russty said:

So, I have the same issue and have bypassed it. That is, I just pull the hammer back as I raise the gun and only fire single action. I practice this move at the range and found it easier and faster then to fire first shot double action and then re adjust for single action. Just pull the hammer and fire only SA!

This will hold you back in the long run.  Cocking the hammer on the draw is just too slow.  To the OP: Just dry fire the piss out your DA and you will eventually not even think about it.  I switched from Glock to CZ myself and had to drill it, but now the DA pull isn't something that even concerns me. 

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I decided to work on this at the range:

100 reps:
-Bullet chambered, hammer down, holstered
-3-6 second random beep on my shot timer
-Draw and fire one shot in DA on a target at 12 yds
-drop hammer, holster, repeat

I’ve been twice a week outside of standard shooting. HUGE improvement on both my draw form, first shot time, and confidence firing in DA. I plan to focus on this for the next several weeks.



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On 2/21/2020 at 7:34 AM, Russty said:

All I'm doing is pulling back the hammer, which one has to do anyway for all manner of misfires.

 

No, There isn't a single malfunction clearance procedure for semi auto handguns that requires one to "pull back" the hammer.

 

I normally don't correct people on the internet but new shooters look to us for information on how to be safe and proficient with handguns and everything you've said in this thread is so monumentally wrong that I had to say something.

 

You really shouldn't be giving advice until you learn to correctly operate a handgun.

 

No one, I repeat, no one who is any good and shoots a DA/SA pistol does what you do.  Trust me when I tell you that should be a big clue for you.

Edited by SGT_Schultz
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2 hours ago, Jonesjohnm said:

I decided to work on this at the range:

100 reps:
-Bullet chambered, hammer down, holstered
-3-6 second random beep on my shot timer
-Draw and fire one shot in DA on a target at 12 yds
-drop hammer, holster, repeat

I’ve been twice a week outside of standard shooting. HUGE improvement on both my draw form, first shot time, and confidence firing in DA. I plan to focus on this for the next several weeks.



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My drills are quite similar.  with your timer on random.

  1-I practice from The holster one shot on target at 10 yards.  holster one shot on target at 10 yards double action only drop the hammer. Run drill about 15 times

 

 2-Loaded chamber hammer down holstered pull Fire Two Rounds. hammer down holster, Draw fire two rounds hammer down holster.  do this about 15 times

 

3- Loaded chamber hammer down holstered,  draw fire 3 Rounds drop the hammer and Holster do this about 15 times. 

 

 Something else I do I have a 22 conversion for my Beretta 92, and I shoot Steel matches,  and even though I don't have to I pulled from The holster, I do.

 I also have a 22 conversion from my 3 gun AR and I always take it and shoot my carbine as a 22 it's all good practice and very inexpensive.

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My drills are quite similar.  with your timer on random.
  1-I practice from The holster one shot on target at 10 yards.  holster one shot on target at 10 yards double action only drop the hammer. Run drill about 15 times
 
 2-Loaded chamber hammer down holstered pull Fire Two Rounds. hammer down holster, Draw fire two rounds hammer down holster.  do this about 15 times
 
3- Loaded chamber hammer down holstered,  draw fire 3 Rounds drop the hammer and Holster do this about 15 times. 
 
 Something else I do I have a 22 conversion for my Beretta 92, and I shoot Steel matches,  and even though I don't have to I pulled from The holster, I do.
 I also have a 22 conversion from my 3 gun AR and I always take it and shoot my carbine as a 22 it's all good practice and very inexpensive.


This sounds good, I can definitely incorporate that as well. That’ll help me get used to that d/a to s/a follow up transition. Good tip.


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On ‎2‎/‎21‎/‎2020 at 3:09 AM, Russty said:

So, I have the same issue and have bypassed it. That is, I just pull the hammer back as I raise the gun and only fire single action. I practice this move at the range and found it easier and faster then to fire first shot double action and then re adjust for single action. Just pull the hammer and fire only SA!

Thats the most stupid and slowest thing you should do...

 

Just dryfire drills with draws, your DA trigger (wich is a nice one, on a shadow) will be the easiest thing in the world after a while.

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Moto mentioned "practice." You described a drill you are doing and added a great word at the end of it...……."repeat."

 

Good quality repetitions in  dryfire, livefire, and matches are the only way to get gooder at this sport. All the books and apps and go-pros people rely on and fiddle with will not and cannot take the place of training. 

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Fire at least two shots instead of just one on draw drills.  You need to sort out the switch to SA as well.

 

Once you get confidence in it, the trick for me was to ignore the trigger difference and just shoot the dot.

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I went from single stack to production. It wasn't my first DA shot that got me, it was my second shot. My finger thought it was pulling that DA pull again.  I keep hitting an alpha-mike on the first target. Working on it. 

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