euxx Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Trent, your guys should really get PractiScore Supporter subs and post some videos for these matches... [emoji846] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rishii Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 12 hours ago, HCH said: No!!!! We have to revert to how the game was in 1983!!!!!!!!!! That would be fun i started in 84, no divisions, everybody shot heads up, if you showed up with a revolver in your duty rig, you shot against that that gamer with his new fangled unpractical compgun with flush fitting 7 round mags, when the first guy showed up with devel follower that allowed 8, we thought he was cheating you want a high cap gun, no problem, pick the wonder nine of your choice and shot minor Red dot sights, hell you’re Jedi Knight wannabe yep the good old days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJM Posted February 16, 2019 Author Share Posted February 16, 2019 A PCC guy set up a stage at our local USPSA match today, that included: At 35 yards, two steel and three paper at 35 yards, with two of the paper targets stacked making a partial with no delineation between the two paper targets. An identical array on the other side of the bay at 35 yards. Two spinners at 15 yards with a 30 second penalty for failing to spin each, later reduced to three procedurals each for failing to spin, since they couldn’t figure out how to do penalty seconds on the pad. Shooting CO, I spun both and made basically A hits on the 35 yard targets, although at a lot slower pace than the PCC shooters, but it was a bloodbath for most of the pistol shooters, especially the less skilled ones. I heard extreme frustration expressed by numerous experienced pistol shooters, and I can’t imagine what the newer pistol shooters were thinking. Comments from some of the PCC shooters were along the lines of “how great to be able to challenge PCC shooters.” This kind of stuff can drive a big wedge between PCC and the rest of the pistol divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 56 minutes ago, GJM said: A PCC guy set up a stage at our local USPSA match today, that included: At 35 yards, two steel and three paper at 35 yards, with two of the paper targets stacked making a partial with no delineation between the two paper targets. An identical array on the other side of the bay at 35 yards. Two spinners at 15 yards with a 30 second penalty for failing to spin each, later reduced to three procedurals each for failing to spin, since they couldn’t figure out how to do penalty seconds on the pad. Shooting CO, I spun both and made basically A hits on the 35 yard targets, although at a lot slower pace than the PCC shooters, but it was a bloodbath for most of the pistol shooters, especially the less skilled ones. I heard extreme frustration expressed by numerous experienced pistol shooters, and I can’t imagine what the newer pistol shooters were thinking. Comments from some of the PCC shooters were along the lines of “how great to be able to challenge PCC shooters.” This kind of stuff can drive a big wedge between PCC and the rest of the pistol divisions. If this was a USPSA Handgun/PCC match, then that was an illegal stage. The spinner is not a legal target (4.3.1.6) and with hit factor scoring, there are no time penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 1 hour ago, GJM said: A PCC guy set up a stage at our local USPSA match today, that included: At 35 yards, two steel and three paper at 35 yards, with two of the paper targets stacked making a partial with no delineation between the two paper targets. An identical array on the other side of the bay at 35 yards. Two spinners at 15 yards with a 30 second penalty for failing to spin each, later reduced to three procedurals each for failing to spin, since they couldn’t figure out how to do penalty seconds on the pad. Shooting CO, I spun both and made basically A hits on the 35 yard targets, although at a lot slower pace than the PCC shooters, but it was a bloodbath for most of the pistol shooters, especially the less skilled ones. I heard extreme frustration expressed by numerous experienced pistol shooters, and I can’t imagine what the newer pistol shooters were thinking. Comments from some of the PCC shooters were along the lines of “how great to be able to challenge PCC shooters.” This kind of stuff can drive a big wedge between PCC and the rest of the pistol divisions. Yep not a uspsa legal stage. If at a uspsa match, you should have protested it and had it tossed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJM Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 Is that true for a USPSA Level one club match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, GJM said: Is that true for a USPSA Level one club match? Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, GJM said: Is that true for a USPSA Level one club match? there are specific rules for level 1 match exemptions, spinners are not one of them Edited February 17, 2019 by RJH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJM Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 It would be greatly appreciated if you could point me to that section of the rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, GJM said: It would be greatly appreciated if you could point me to that section of the rules? 1.1.5.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJM Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, Sarge said: 1.1.5.1 Sorry for being so dense, but looking here, I am not seeing this at 1.1.5.1? https://uspsa.org/documents/rules/2019_USPSA_Competition_Rules.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, GJM said: Sorry for being so dense, but looking here, I am not seeing this at 1.1.5.1? https://uspsa.org/documents/rules/2019_USPSA_Competition_Rules.pdf If you are looking for a rule that says "spinners are illegal", you won't find one. What you will find are rules about metal plates. They must fall or overturn to score. With one shot. Go read 4.3.1.6 as I mentioned above. (actually all of 4.3) Also, as you peruse the rules, notice that there is no Level 1 exemption for target types, other than 0.5 size paper targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 1.1.5.1 says what level I exemptions exist. 4.3 list allowable steel targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJM Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 So, as I understand it, reading appendix A1, level 1 matches must follow USPSA rules. Spinners are not permitted steel targets since they require more than one hit to score. The problem is the match director and other club officer both shoot PCC, and one of them designed the stage, so they are unlikely to be sympathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, GJM said: So, as I understand it, reading appendix A1, level 1 matches must follow USPSA rules. Spinners are not permitted steel targets since they require more than one hit to score. The problem is the match director and other club officer both shoot PCC, and one of them designed the stage, so they are unlikely to be sympathetic. Then drop a line to your section coordinator or area director. If they are calling it USPSA, then they have to follow the rules. This isn't a division choice problem, it is a people problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HCH Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 On 2/16/2019 at 8:21 PM, GJM said: So, as I understand it, reading appendix A1, level 1 matches must follow USPSA rules. Spinners are not permitted steel targets since they require more than one hit to score. The problem is the match director and other club officer both shoot PCC, and one of them designed the stage, so they are unlikely to be sympathetic. So your MD is a dumbass and needs to read the rules (which are available for free on the USPSA website). If this is marketed as a USPSA match, steps can be taken to correct this issue. I will I’ll also add that a shooter should know, at least roughly, what is or is not allowed in a USPSA match so they can arbitrate such illegal stage designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ontos Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) On 2/16/2019 at 8:21 PM, GJM said: So, as I understand it, reading appendix A1, level 1 matches must follow USPSA rules. Spinners are not permitted steel targets since they require more than one hit to score. The problem is the match director and other club officer both shoot PCC, and one of them designed the stage, so they are unlikely to be sympathetic. Doesn't matter if they're sympathetic or not... it's either legal or it's not. In this case it's not. Edited February 18, 2019 by Ontos Detail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaylanGivens Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 I've shot matches with spinners, but they were PCC-only matches... was fun... You got 3 procedurals if you couldn't spin the spinner... They are not an approved target for standard USPSA matches as everyone has mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Spinners are great targets for PCC, but no bueno under USPSA rules (even for a dedicated PCC match). One of many reasons my PCC matches are outlaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawdustnsteel Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Being new, I don’t get what the issue is.. I just shot my first match last Wednesday after helping set up and take down stages for about 5 weeks. I figured it out rather easily how to pull up limited after the match and see my results vs the same in my division... and I’ve got a PCC... shot limited my first match, likely will continue to shoot limited mostly because PCC at under 25 meters seems kinda boring, I don’t mean that in the “ easy to win” boring but like 3 gun... ie you can use a 5.56 to shoot a paper target 3 meters away and likely will if it makes sense to before grounding it, but that’s a time/ speed call based on the mix of weapons and efficiency of useage.. not picking the easiest recoil and sight picture weapon on a stage designed for revolver.. to me, being new and all PCC is about time and not so much targeting relative to other pistol cal divisions.. ie accuracy is greatly increased by virtue of a 16” barrel and tuned optic.. so the heart of the competition is clock moreso than target...at least to my new eyes.. what i I do see as a benefit of PCC is who it brings to the game... personally I’d be doing this solo had my wife not stolen my sub 2000 from my safe for our range Sunday’s two years ago ( she’s currently using my Nordic PCC until her sig mpx arrives). At right at 5 foot she isn’t exactly built for marathon running so her comfort with PCC got her to come to and shoot the match with me, and likely will be the source of many of my friends coming to try it out as well because it’s easier to be familiar with ( especially if your military or retired mil) and objectively safer to use vs drawing and firing... I think from that intro weapon some will go onto other divisions as thier comfort allows just as some will push harder to get better at it and tear up baby jogger strollers to make matches easier to navigate with all thier gear;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaylanGivens Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 18 hours ago, StealthyBlagga said: Spinners are great targets for PCC, but no bueno under USPSA rules (even for a dedicated PCC match). One of many reasons my PCC matches are outlaw. Yep... That's why PractiScore has a new "Hit Factor" match type with no organizational affiliation... Right at the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstamper Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 On 1/22/2019 at 11:03 AM, HoMiE said: It’s US Practical Shooting Association not Pistol Shooting Association. I don’t agree with the yeah you won bringing a rifle to a pistol match hyperbole. If you shoot and move slow with a pistol, bringing a pcc to a match isn’t going to bring you GM status and hOA. And the hey lets make hard leans to slow the pcc shooters down doesn’t do anything but separate the fast shooters from the slower ones. agree. I shoot pcc because of injuries that prevent me from shooting a pistol well enough to be competitive. If it were not for PCC I would not be shooting now. AND the P in USPSA does NOT stand for pistol. SO if I find pcc to be practical in my shooting then I fit the the definition of USPSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Get one thousand people to email Practiscore asking them to no longer report an overall in their results but division results only. That'd probably do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euxx Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 There is only about 5 people who care about PCC or overall results [emoji16] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, euxx said: There is only about 5 people who care about PCC or overall results It’s up to 5 now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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