9mm Major Overtakes 38SC--Optics Nats Equipment Survey

[Foxbat]

1 hour ago, Maximis228 said:

 SV seems to be the one place that cant make a running 9 major gun. 

 

Really?  I have two of them, and have no complaints at all. 

[SSGJohnV]

On 1/4/2019 at 11:14 AM, Gooldylocks said:

I think what a lot of it comes down to is that so many 38 shooters think their guns are flatter and softer than a 9mm, because of the higher charge weight. But if you use slow powder in 9mm similar to what you would in a 38, then all of the sudden your 9mm feels great.

I'm loading 9 grains of HS6. I have buddies loading 10.5 grains of AA7, or 9.5ish of 3n38. Use slow powder, and your 9mm will feel just as good.

Yup. 9.8 grains of AA7 here with a 124 PD. Soft, yo. 

[Nevadazielmeister]

On 1/4/2019 at 8:14 AM, Gooldylocks said:

I think what a lot of it comes down to is that so many 38 shooters think their guns are flatter and softer than a 9mm, because of the higher charge weight. But if you use slow powder in 9mm similar to what you would in a 38, then all of the sudden your 9mm feels great.

I'm loading 9 grains of HS6. I have buddies loading 10.5 grains of AA7, or 9.5ish of 3n38. Use slow powder, and your 9mm will feel just as good.

 

Can you show the folks what 9 grains of HS6 looks like in a 9mm case before the bullet is placed? 

 

And does anyone else have a photo of 10.5 grains of AA7 to show how it compares to a case?  

[dvc4you]

 
Can you show the folks what 9 grains of HS6 looks like in a 9mm case before the bullet is placed? 
 
And does anyone else have a photo of 10.5 grains of AA7 to show how it compares to a case?  

I can tell you that 9.6gr of 3N38 fills the case up to the brim which the bullet then compresses....no problem


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[echotango]

1 hour ago, Nevadazielmeister said:

 

Can you show the folks what 9 grains of HS6 looks like in a 9mm case before the bullet is placed? 

 

And does anyone else have a photo of 10.5 grains of AA7 to show how it compares to a case?  

Here you go. AA7 on the left, HS6 on the right. I was at 10.6 with a 115 when I tried it and it was not compressed. 

 

[Posvar]

I have a pic or two somewhere of 3n38 and HS6 in 9mm case I’ll dig up. 

[mag17]

We are all getting old and cheap - no one wants to be chasing brass at a match.....   I started off with open guns in both 38SC and 9mm... When I cracked the comp on my 38SC, I made the decision to re-barrel in 9mm...   Even though I know that the 38SC was flatter shooter (for me), I was tired of chasing the brass....  

[Fo0]

On 1/2/2019 at 11:59 AM, Gooldylocks said:

 

Well there it is folks, 9mm is officially taking over in Open. In just two short years 9mm went from the definite underdog (39% vs 60%) to dominant (54% vs 45%).

 

Fight me.

 

 

 

only 5% switch from 38 SC to 9mm ("9mm Major Overtakes 38SC" "dominant")

Edited February 2, 2019 by Fo0

[StandardError]

On 2/2/2019 at 2:35 AM, Fo0 said:

 

only 5% switch from 38 SC to 9mm ("9mm Major Overtakes 38SC" "dominant")

 

What we should really be doing is interrogating the 2% shooting .40 in open.

 

I'm both intrigued and mystified.

[Chillywig]

57 minutes ago, StandardError said:

 

What we should really be doing is interrogating the 2% shooting .40 in open.

 

I'm both intrigued and mystified.

Probably G-Lock open guns....

[abb1]

I actually believe that those figures are wrong. I am more so to believe that 9mm major is at about 65-70%+ in the Open division. In most matches, there are ever only about 2-3 open shooters shooting either 38 Super or 38 super-comp. it is reliable, and with today’s powders, it easily makes major and Brass is so cheap you don’t need to pick it up at matches. I think it is a no-brainer. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by abb1

[Front Man]

My rig runs Supers and Super Comp. That's 60%.

[csailer]

38 SC feeds better, is more reliable, more durable, softer, flatter, less violent, more expensive

 

I do not have a brass sponsor, but yet still choose to shoot 38 SC for its benefits.  You honestly just don't loose that much brass, and isn't as costly or time consuming as people say.  

 

I do my own private training sessions indoors, so I simply just sweep the brass when I'm done and pick it up.  Very simple and costs me 10 minutes max at the end of the practice session.  I shoot one local match a month and get 75% of my brass back without trying hard at all, as it's easy to spot for me.  At major matches I buy brand new starline brass, shoot it once, and load it again anyways, so it's a similar cost.  

 

I have a 9mm open gun, and after trying 5 different types of powders, weights, springs, etc. I still can't get it to shoot as flat as my 38SC.  It's too snappy, no matter how fluffy I go with powders.  

 

HOWEVER, I choose to shoot this caliber because when I travel to big matches, I simply just can't afford a jam and if I lost by a small margin, would always think about how I would have done with a slightly softer gun that didn't jam once in the match.  

 

 

Small sample size, but two of my training buddies got brand new guns from a reputable builder.  One in 38 SC and one in 9mm.  

 

The 9mm friend is always messing with springs and getting jams, but the 38 SC gun never falters.  

 

Likewise, personal observation, and might receive some opinionated responses, but by simply observing how other people's guns shoot, shooting others' open guns, and watching videos, 38 SC guns jam less and are softer/flatter. 

 

Just my personal opinion and observation.  I understand the benefits of 9mm, but the personal choice for me is simple.  ;)

[Shmella]

4 minutes ago, csailer said:

38 SC feeds better, is more reliable, more durable, softer, flatter, less violent, more expensive

 

I do not have a brass sponsor, but yet still choose to shoot 38 SC for its benefits.  You honestly just don't loose that much brass, and isn't as costly or time consuming as people say.  

 

I do my own private training sessions indoors, so I simply just sweep the brass when I'm done and pick it up.  Very simple and costs me 10 minutes max at the end of the practice session.  I shoot one local match a month and get 75% of my brass back without trying hard at all, as it's easy to spot for me.  At major matches I buy brand new starline brass, shoot it once, and load it again anyways, so it's a similar cost.  

 

I have a 9mm open gun, and after trying 5 different types of powders, weights, springs, etc. I still can't get it to shoot as flat as my 38SC.  It's too snappy, no matter how fluffy I go with powders.  

 

HOWEVER, I choose to shoot this caliber because when I travel to big matches, I simply just can't afford a jam and if I lost by a small margin, would always think about how I would have done with a slightly softer gun that didn't jam once in the match.  

 

 

Small sample size, but two of my training buddies got brand new guns from a reputable builder.  One in 38 SC and one in 9mm.  

 

The 9mm friend is always messing with springs and getting jams, but the 38 SC gun never falters.  

 

Likewise, personal observation, and might receive some opinionated responses, but by simply observing how other people's guns shoot, shooting others' open guns, and watching videos, 38 SC guns jam less and are softer/flatter. 

 

Just my personal opinion and observation.  I understand the benefits of 9mm, but the personal choice for me is simple.

Just curious, what do you use for Bullet weight and powder? 

[Gooldylocks]

14 minutes ago, csailer said:

38 SC feeds better, is more reliable, more durable, softer, flatter, less violent, more expensive

Go home Christian, you're drunk

[csailer]

10 minutes ago, Gooldylocks said:

Go home Christian, you're drunk

yeah right 

 

20 minutes ago, Shmella said:

Just curious, what do you use for Bullet weight and powder? 

I shoot a 124 rainier ballistics bullet with 10.2 of Vit 3N38 or HS6

[Fo0]

11 minutes ago, csailer said:

yeah right 

 

I shoot a 124 rainier ballistics bullet with 10.2 of Vit 3N38 or HS6

 

what size diameter bullet

[Furrly]

 

1 hour ago, csailer said:

38 SC feeds better, is more reliable, more durable, softer, flatter, less violent, more expensive

 

I do not have a brass sponsor, but yet still choose to shoot 38 SC for its benefits.  You honestly just don't loose that much brass, and isn't as costly or time consuming as people say.  

 

I do my own private training sessions indoors, so I simply just sweep the brass when I'm done and pick it up.  Very simple and costs me 10 minutes max at the end of the practice session.  I shoot one local match a month and get 75% of my brass back without trying hard at all, as it's easy to spot for me.  At major matches I buy brand new starline brass, shoot it once, and load it again anyways, so it's a similar cost.  

 

I have a 9mm open gun, and after trying 5 different types of powders, weights, springs, etc. I still can't get it to shoot as flat as my 38SC.  It's too snappy, no matter how fluffy I go with powders.  

 

HOWEVER, I choose to shoot this caliber because when I travel to big matches, I simply just can't afford a jam and if I lost by a small margin, would always think about how I would have done with a slightly softer gun that didn't jam once in the match.  

 

 

Small sample size, but two of my training buddies got brand new guns from a reputable builder.  One in 38 SC and one in 9mm.  

 

The 9mm friend is always messing with springs and getting jams, but the 38 SC gun never falters.  

 

Likewise, personal observation, and might receive some opinionated responses, but by simply observing how other people's guns shoot, shooting others' open guns, and watching videos, 38 SC guns jam less and are softer/flatter. 

 

Just my personal opinion and observation.  I understand the benefits of 9mm, but the personal choice for me is simple.

Don't burst my bubble sailer, I'm having a 9mm open gun being built by the reputable gun builder as we speak..

[SWprotected]

38SC feeds better, doesn't jam! This is Fake News!!! I will say I do think SC is a little flatter and softer, but I don't buy all this other stuff. I shot open for 2 years both of my guns were 9 Major and I had  jams two times in 2 years and both times it was my fault for not changing mag springs, I let the springs go longer than I should have. Both of my guns were cleaned after each match and new springs a couple times a year. I personally don't care what anyone else shoots but I keep hearing a lot of bad information about what 9 major can't do like run reliably.

[Posvar]

6 hours ago, SWprotected said:

38SC feeds better, doesn't jam! This is Fake News!!! I will say I do think SC is a little flatter and softer, but I don't buy all this other stuff. I shot open for 2 years both of my guns were 9 Major and I had  jams two times in 2 years and both times it was my fault for not changing mag springs, I let the springs go longer than I should have. Both of my guns were cleaned after each match and new springs a couple times a year. I personally don't care what anyone else shoots but I keep hearing a lot of bad information about what 9 major can't do like run reliably.

I agree totally. Some people try to justify their stance on what they chose. My 9mm is 100% so far for over 3k rounds in that last 4 weeks. I have a 38SC gun as well and actually like the more snappy impulse of my 9mm. To each his own and go out and have fun.

[Dchassejr]

I made to switch from 9major to 38sc after 3 years.  I find 38sc to shoot a lot softer then my 9.  I was worried about picking up my brass but it seems pretty easy.  I shoot with two or three other guys that shoot 38sc so brassing for each other is no problem.

[shred]

So is it not-news now when a 9-major gun runs?  Seems like the 38 shooters don't ever need to say that (that was not always true-- back in the early 90s a 100% running Super was a thing to behold).  

 

That's been my yardstick for 9 major.  Seems like we're getting close.  I haven't really followed it much.

[StandardError]

1 minute ago, shred said:

So is it not-news now when a 9-major gun runs?  Seems like the 38 shooters don't ever need to say that (that was not always true-- back in the early 90s a 100% running Super was a thing to behold).  

 

That's been my yardstick for 9 major.  Seems like we're getting close.  I haven't really followed it much.

 

My secondhand experience is that a lot of 9 major jams are because the quality of brass people use for 9 major can be much much worse.

[Maximis228]

I cant think of the last time I racked a round out of my open guns in 9 major. They are all runners. Maybes its Venom Custom. Maybe its me roll sizing brass. Maybe its case gauging. Maybes its The PD 124 Projectile. Maybe its regular gun maintenance.

 

Now I will probably rack a round at my next match for saying the above.

[bigbob21]

As someone who’s only shot open for a year or two, I’ve noticed a few things at the local/regional level...

Guys who aren’t at the national level might perceive the footage of some nicely built 38sc guns to be better due to their flat shooting and fast splits.

I think when your winning matches tho... accuracy is king and as long as the dot returns and you know your gun, it’s more a reliability/ease of use thing.
9major is just slightly less to deal with, brass wise, but it’s on average not as flat shooting...
Which isn’t a big deal if you’ve come from other divisions, as a 9major will still recoil less than a limited gun.