Courtesty (or lack thereof) at Club Matches

[RickT]

My wife quit a match today when her runs at S&H were blown by really loud conversation between two of the squad members.  She has her muffs turns off, but has exceptional hearing and it's not unusual to have a background conversation where at least one of the participants has passive protection and not great hearing at that.  We're not talking golf or tennis here, but when my wife said something to the RO he basically said get used to it.  Few of these club matches have real ROs and often ROs will be USPSA shooters who don't know the SC rules well and aren't that invested in SC.  The conduct I'm questioning is a breach of common courtesy, not specifically covered in the rules, but are we out of place expecting that folks keep it down?  How do other clubs handle this?  Or how would a real RO handle this?

 

I get that a fair number of people at club matches may only shoot/practice SC once a month.  It's recreation and has a social aspect, but that's not true of everyone at the match.  My wife and a drive a minimum of 3 hours one-way to most any match and the cost is well beyond the entry fee for us.  We're going to try to squad differently at this particular match and see how it goes.

[TonytheTiger]

I can't remember the last match that I didn't get heckled and/or whistled at during an entire stage..

[BritinUSA]

It’s been an issue at some matches for a long time, there are posts about it on this forum from many years ago. It’s all about being courteous, unfortunately this concept is lost on some competitors.

 

There have been a few times when I have been the RO, and a competitor has requested me to ask the squad to be quiet so they could concentrate, only to receive filthy looks from some when I call for quiet. 

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by BritinUSA

[StuckinMS]

Requesting a different squad is probably the easiest solution.  I have learned to tune out everything in the back ground, but if I were asked as RO go hush the crowd by the shooter on deck, I would oblige. This sport draws some of the most courteous people on the planet.  Yes there are some rotten apples, but for the most part they don't try or want to be rude.  If you haven't been shooting with those folks for any extended amount of time they may just be, being themselves and may not mind the request to be extra  quiet for another shooter.

[ZackJones]

After the match did you express your concerns with the match director? 

 

For tier II or higher matches I make an announcement during the shooter's meeting for people to keep the noise down. I haven't done so at a club match but I'll plan to do that this coming weekend.

 

[Sarge]

2 hours ago, RickT said:

My wife quit a match today when her runs at S&H were blown by really loud conversation between two of the squad members.  She has her muffs turns off, but has exceptional hearing and it's not unusual to have a background conversation where at least one of the participants has passive protection and not great hearing at that.  We're not talking golf or tennis here, but when my wife said something to the RO he basically said get used to it.  Few of these club matches have real ROs and often ROs will be USPSA shooters who don't know the SC rules well and aren't that invested in SC.  The conduct I'm questioning is a breach of common courtesy, not specifically covered in the rules, but are we out of place expecting that folks keep it down?  How do other clubs handle this?  Or how would a real RO handle this?

 

I get that a fair number of people at club matches may only shoot/practice SC once a month.  It's recreation and has a social aspect, but that's not true of everyone at the match.  My wife and a drive a minimum of 3 hours one-way to most any match and the cost is well beyond the entry fee for us.  We're going to try to squad differently at this particular match and see how it goes.

Are you saying you think this happened because the RO’s were possibly USPSA shooters? I don’t shoot SC but at USPSA matches as an RO, or even a member of the peanut gallery, we have no problem asking for a little more quiet when noise becomes a distraction. I think you just had a crappy experience. Should have just brought it up to the MD and remembered who not to squad with in the future.

[RickT]

I inadvertently brought up an unrelated issue.  In general, the folks RO'ing (I'm one) are not ROs unless they happen to be USPSA ROs.  The lack of courtesy appears to be common at club matches and ad hoc ROs don't have the mindset to control the squad.  This should improve if USPSA ever rolls out SC-specific RO training as opposed to a module in a 2-day USPSA session.  Clubs could then identify members so trained who would, along with the MD, would help run the match.  I don't see how clubs would ever have enough trained ROs at any given Level 1 match to have a trained (certified?) RO per squad.

 

The MD at club matches is probably in a squad and might be 100 yards away, but I'll e-mail the MD and suggest he bring this up a the shooters' meeting next month.

 

Tony, up above, says he is always heckled, by friends I assume.  If three buds heckle each other assuming that is part of he sport I'm fine with that as long as they zip it when others are shooting.  

[TonytheTiger]

29 minutes ago, RickT said:

Tony, up above, says he is always heckled, by friends I assume.  If three buds heckle each other assuming that is part of he sport I'm fine with that as long as they zip it when others are shooting.  

Not quite, the match I'm thinking of probably has 70% of the shooters as active hecklers, you can't escape it no matter how you squad. Almost everyone knows everyone else and it doesn't seem to bother anyone. New people are usually left out of the trash talk but if they hang around long enough they'll come to expect it.

[Scootertheshooter]

If the RO asks for the folks to pipe down a bit and gets a filthy look that would be a good time to address the squad if there’s a problem with respecting his request ? If too much chatter is behind you when RO ing this could cause safety concerns as well . If someone has issue with that they should probably leave


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[StuckinMS]

1 hour ago, RickT said:

I inadvertently brought up an unrelated issue.  In general, the folks RO'ing (I'm one) are not ROs unless they happen to be USPSA ROs.  The lack of courtesy appears to be common at club matches and ad hoc ROs don't have the mindset to control the squad.  This should improve if USPSA ever rolls out SC-specific RO training as opposed to a module in a 2-day USPSA session.  Clubs could then identify members so trained who would, along with the MD, would help run the match.  I don't see how clubs would ever have enough trained ROs at any given Level 1 match to have a trained (certified?) RO per squad.

 

The MD at club matches is probably in a squad and might be 100 yards away, but I'll e-mail the MD and suggest he bring this up a the shooters' meeting next month.

 

Tony, up above, says he is always heckled, by friends I assume.  If three buds heckle each other assuming that is part of he sport I'm fine with that as long as they zip it when others are shooting.  

We have certified ROs in more quantity than squads at our club.  If it is a distraction then bring it up to the ROs attention, if it isn't handled sufficiently then the RM or MD.  We, myself included, heckle with each other very regular, but not to the active shooter or while anyone else is shooting.  Plenty of time between shooters and stages for it.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I guess being OLD (73) and deaf (hearing aids in both ears), is an

advantage.    

 

I've never, in 33 years, been distracted by "the peanut gallery".

 

I'm usually concentrating, fairly fiercely, on what I'm doing and where

the targets are ... don't have time to worry about people behind me  

[zzt]

I'm a USPSA RO very familiar with SC rules and procedures.  I RO SC matches, and have zero problem asking talkers to keep it down.  A hand signal to move back, or keep it down is all it takes.  We must have more courteous, or more serious shooters, because it is rarely a problem.

 

As an RO, I would have handled the original problem differently.  If the loud mouths refused to quiet down, I'd tell them the next time they did it, I'd DQ or expel them under 8.4.1 or 8.4.2 for unsportsmanlike like conduct.  Let them scream to the RM or MD and see what they do.  In any event, I think they would get the message.

[RickT]

I'm sure the folks having the conversation would have quieted down.  They weren't heckling, simply talking about California gun politics which is a heated topic hereabouts.  My wife and I agree that if this happens in the future she won't take the ready position if there is really a loud discussion in the near background leaving it up to the RO to deal with it.  At one recent (different) match where we were self-squad'ed someone from another squad that had moved behind us (next to shoot) had blurted out something loud just as the timer buzzed; I stopped, turned around in the box, and asked him to be quiet.  He was standing no more than 8' behind me.  This is harder for a woman to deal with in a sport largely comprised of men.

[Flatland Shooter]

The RO says get used to it?  Then the time I would take to "make ready" would be sufficiently long enough for the crowd to finally quiet down.

 

The RO doesn't like it?  Then he/she should get used to it.

[Nathanb]

Are we really talking about noise on a gun range? I expect it to be noisy. I expect my friends to talk trash. I expect background noise of all kinds. How loud of a conversation was it that she quit? Was she having s bad match and that was the last straw?  

[conditionone]

I actually feel more comfortable with the noise. Heckling is even better.  It's the silence that distracts me more. Silence usually means all eyes are on you.

That said, If someone would request quiet they would get it. A lot of good people in this sport.

[ChuckS]

Simple trick for this situation if it can't be remedied by request : when the start signal happens, do nothing. If questioned, tell the RO you could not hear the signal over the chatter. Repeat until the situation is fixed.

[Powder Finger]

50 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Simple trick for this situation if it can't be remedied by request : when the start signal happens, do nothing. If questioned, tell the RO you could not hear the signal over the chatter. Repeat until the situation is fixed.

nice fix

[stick]

1 hour ago, ChuckS said:

Simple trick for this situation if it can't be remedied by request : when the start signal happens, do nothing. If questioned, tell the RO you could not hear the signal over the chatter. Repeat until the situation is fixed.

Great Idea!

[davsco]

with muffs, and sometimes also plugs underneath, easy to talk loudly in part because you don't know you're talking that loud.  a stern STFU (j/k, a polite request to tone it down a little) to your squadmates should remedy the issue.

[Slow250]

This was an interesting phenomena I witnessed shooting my first SC major last year.  It had never come up in many USPSA majors, but there were several instances I witnessed where people got upset over a car starting up in the parking lot, someone driving by on the gravel range road, or people talking.  I honestly smiled when someone complained about a car, thinking he was joking, and then realized it was a serious comment.  To each their own, but worrying about external factors like that is not yielding optimal performance.

[p7fl]

I strongly disagree with people who say it is OK for people to distract a shooter.

I usually know the locals and am a big target for teasing and other nonsense as I get ready.

But, as a CRO for 18 years I figure it is part of my "job" to make sure the shooter has the best chance to do well. That includes  stopping shooters from crowding the line and talking loudly. I don't want "my" shooter to be distracted. I get possessive and want "my" shooter to have a clean run.

Bottom line is if I can feel shooters close to me or talking loudly, I stop them, and we don't start until it gets reasonable.

[bigtimelarry]

On 2/19/2018 at 12:36 PM, conditionone said:

I actually feel more comfortable with the noise. Heckling is even better.  It's the silence that distracts me more. Silence usually means all eyes are on you.

That said, If someone would request quiet they would get it. A lot of good people in this sport.

 

Exactly. I like when there's talking because I know nobody's watching me and I can concentrate better..

[38super]

Your score sheet?  What score sheet?

[Frozen]

I actually feel more comfortable with the noise. Heckling is even better.  It's the silence that distracts me more. Silence usually means all eyes are on you.
That said, If someone would request quiet they would get it. A lot of good people in this sport.

This is me !!!


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