AngelDeVille Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I'm starting with cz p09's for myself and my son. I havent shot the matches that have so many rules and acromyms. Just action pistol and soon 3 gun. I'm eyeballing a 2011 or even a CZ TSO when I upgrade. The pistol is the cheap part... in 9mm for me... There are a lot of silly rules, and I don't get the whole major/minor scoring, it really is antiquated thinking, and silliness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 12 minutes ago, AngelDeVille said: There are a lot of silly rules, and I don't get the whole major/minor scoring, it really is antiquated thinking, and silliness. Amen. Started back in the '70's, when the .45 was King. Now that there are Very Potent 9mm loads, there really is no actual difference in the real world between .45 hardball and 9mm +P+ HP's. Maybe one day, there won't be major/minor. BUT, still a LOT of fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsaacB Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) Do away with major power factor and you know what the classifieds would look like. 40sw 2011s everywhere. Edited February 14, 2018 by IsaacB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I'm all right with that .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) I'm not so sure about that. 40 loaded to minor shoots softer than 9mm minor. I shoot 155 Precision poly bullets over 3.3gr e3 for 131PF in the TS I originally bought for Limited. I use it for Steel Challenge, and love it. Edited February 14, 2018 by zzt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 8 minutes ago, zzt said: I'm not so sure about that. 40 loaded to minor shoots softer than 9mm minor. I shoot 155 Precision poly bullets over 3.3gr e3 for 131PF in the TS I originally bought for Limited. I use it for Steel Challenge, and love it. That's debatable. I personally think 9 shoots softer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 18 minutes ago, Garmil said: That's debatable. I personally think 9 shoots softer. Not to mention cheaper to load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsaacB Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 You can get more 9 in a mag. That's all I would care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Major/minor is what makes USPSA great. If you want to shoot minor there are divisions for that. And if 9 minor was as powerful as 40 major, why is it that production guys are the ones that are crying about getting screwed by poppers :-) And in most loadings 40 has at least 25% more energy, so there is that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelDeVille Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 2 hours ago, IsaacB said: Do away with major power factor and you know what the classifieds would look like. 40sw 2011s everywhere. Then I'd buy a .40... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) Definitely not rich! Started shooting with a .45 in SS. Local shooter was a S&W rep and got me into a 5" M&P .40 for a good deal. Shot it for everything for a while. Got a 9mm version for 3-gun. Then, one of the guys I had learned a bunch from was ready to "upgrade" his 6" .40 2011. Sold me the pistol with 3 mags for $1500 if I recall correctly. Parts of the pistol came from at least 3 of the various guys that I still shoot with some; suspect the frame had upwards of 30K rds on it when I got it and I've added at least 10K. Still shoots great. Its not the tightest fitting gun anymore, but barrel still locks up well and accuracy is fantastic and it just runs and runs. Found a great "deal" (better than $3K, but not $5K+) on a barely used SV a couple years ago. Still shoot the first one better... About 3 months ago, a local guy was liquidating some guns he no longer shoots. I was able to snag an 18-ish year old SV with plastic grip for $400. Basically the deal of a lifetime. It had been shot a bunch and need a little TLC, but with about $200 worth of parts and gunsmith fees and a $175 melonite treatment, it looks great again and runs fine; into it for around $850 or so. Its all about patience and being ready to jump when the right deal pops up. I think that all 3 were great deals for what I got and I still have all 3. Edited February 14, 2018 by wgj3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogtired Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I turned a friend on to a Para 16-40 found in the classifieds here. It was custom thru and thru, a fine shooter, with mags, for $650. That gun could easily take him to M class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 On 2/13/2018 at 8:46 PM, RJH said: Major/minor is what makes USPSA great. If you want to shoot minor there are divisions for that. And if 9 minor was as powerful as 40 major, why is it that production guys are the ones that are crying about getting screwed by poppers :-) Lower the Major PF from 165 to 150, and allow 9mm sized bullets, and no one would need a .40 or .45 .... Just like in real life A 9mm, PF 150 (think +P+ JHP) is every bit as "effective" on the streets as a PF165 .40 or .45 .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulm540 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 I bought my first svi from a friend for 1600 dollars with six mags many years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 On 2/12/2018 at 1:22 PM, zzt said: You might consider something other than a 2011 for a double stack. The CZ 75 Tactical Sport comes ready to shoot Limited, along with three mags. I have a TS and 2011s. IMO the TS is the better gun for Limited, because it is faster, the bore sits lower in you hand and you don't have to do a single thing to it except load the mags. For $1100 new you cannot beat it. +1 The TS is an excellent Limited gun: it has a sub 2# trigger and runs right out of the box. If you pay attention to the classifieds you might get a whole setup for about a grand. Just like cars, buying used is a great way to save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 3 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said: Lower the Major PF from 165 to 150, and allow 9mm sized bullets, and no one would need a .40 or .45 .... Just like in real life A 9mm, PF 150 (think +P+ JHP) is every bit as "effective" on the streets as a PF165 .40 or .45 .... I would be more for raising major power factor to 170-175, but then all the open 9 shooters would start to cry :-) And I am sorry but 9 even loaded to way over saami specs is still way behind what 40 can be loaded to in regards to energy and momentum. DVC is one of the core principals of USPSA The on the streets/fbi stuff is kinda silly. The FBI said we want ammo to do X, so ammo companies made their ammo perform to those standards. Even if they had to download 40 and 45 to do it. The do away with minor/major argument generally seems to come from people who already have a 9 and don't want to buy something else or don't like the recoil of 40. I don't know if you are in that group or not, but asking to rewrite the rules every time some one disagrees with them gets old. And Jack, none of that was said in a smartaleck manner, but tone is hard to tell in intranet. Haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 You can certainly spend a fortune on some wide body 1911s, but you don't have to. You can shop on here and find some seriously good deals. Stock STIs are not horribly expensive. And CKARMS is coming out with a line of "Lite" builds with open guns starting in the $2600 range. I would imagine that the Limited guns will be several hundred less than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 2 hours ago, RJH said: 1. don't like the recoil of 40. 2. asking to rewrite the rules every time some one disagrees with them gets old. 3. And Jack, none of that was said in a smartaleck manner 1. I don't see any significant difference in recoil from 9mm Minor in a 24 ounce gun and .40 Major in a 42 ounce gun ... 2. I ain't asking to rewrite rules - just an observation 3. No such thing as a "smartaleck manner" on a chat group - just your opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 But there is a big difference between 9 and 40 in the same 24 oz gun. There are many Limited Major shooters that use plastic guns. There is a big difference between the two in a 42 oz gun. At my home club we ran matches where everything was scored Major, even if someone was using Minor or sub-minor loads. 9mms had a distinct advantage. As soon as I started Major/Minor scoring, that disadvantage went away and more people started shooting Major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeski Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 So back to the OP's question about a 2011 being for the wealthy, I think it's about how you go about it. I know guys that run a 2011 in limited with a stock Edge, running factory ammo and basic holsters and mag pouches. I had a DVC Limited, got a good deal on a new one, and ran ammo from a local supplier. I didn't get into reloading until I decided to get into Open. Don't get me wrong, you can go crazy with custom guns, rigs, ammo and anything else you would need, but you can do that in any division. Since I was a Golf Pro for 10 years it's the same as golf. if you want the latest and greatest, yeah it's gonna cost you money. If not, it can be done reasonably inexpensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 On 2/13/2018 at 5:33 PM, Garmil said: That's debatable. I personally think 9 shoots softer. .45 ACP 230gr loaded to minor shoots very soft too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Scientist Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) If you have a big firearm and a death grip they all recoil the same. I always wondered why everyone talked about recoil 9 vs 45. All my 45s were big steel firearms. All my 9s were Polymers. Then I shot a compact 45. Well that was different. Then I shot a shadow 2. OOOOOooooo that makes sense now. Weight matters. I also loosened my death grip. Also I snagged a used STI for $1500. There are better deals out there (this guy was local so its worth it to me)--save your money. Edited February 15, 2018 by Crazy Scientist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) An E6 makes what, about $2,600 per month? So about $31,200 a year. You must be at MCAS Yuma, I lived in Yuma for two years (2001-2) btw working at YRMC. If you're stuck in Yuma you're either gonna get a boat or something for the dunes if you're bored hahaha. And both those cost more than shooting for sure! You're absolutely right that shooting a 2011 style gun in USPSA is going to cost you more. You're going to need to get a new rig, a one time cost but still there. You'll have to convert your press or start buying .40 ammo. A one time cost if you reload or a recurring cost if you're buying ammo. Magazines can cost more, a one time cost. Then you've got the recurring cost that .40 is just more expensive to shoot than 9mm. And if you're a heavy user a little more in parts and springs through the course of a year to keep things running smoothly. But if you want a low cost entry into Limited, shooting major pf then you can get 1. A CZ Tac Sport in .40. $1,200 retail. 2. A Rock Island Pro Match Ultra HC for $1,000 retail. Both of these are half the price of what you'd put into a new STI Edge in .40. You're not to far from the Phoenix area and a very large and active shooting scene. I would be shocked in there weren't shooters there with a great 2011 used, for sale. Hit the network a little harder to maybe find an in person deal what would just be a day trip to PHX and back. You are totally right though to want to shoot .40 major if you like LImited and that's gonna be your division. I shot a Tac Sport)TS) that was a less than $2k package for EVERYTHING and I shot an Atlas that was $4k just for the gun in Limited. If the TS fits your hand I would recommend it without any hesitation. Edited February 16, 2018 by rowdyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 On 2/12/2018 at 1:19 PM, TheSandMan491 said: Well you're not giving any specifics on budget. But I was able to pick up a bull barrel STI Eagle with 2 mags for $1300 or so on Gunbroker in great shape with all of the modifications a USPSA shooter would do anyway. The eagle for whatever reason seems to be sold cheaper than an Edge. There are a few more new ones out there now for 1400-1500. The newer Eagles won't have an adjustable sight, but I'm not sure I've ever used the adjust-ability of an adjustable sight. Deals are out there. RowdyB just sold (I think?) his .40 cal Eagle for a heck of a deal on the Enos classifieds too. Yes, I got rid of a very large and complete package of a .40 cal STI Eagle. My asking price when it went away was $1,300-ish iirc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambluemax Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 With all due respect....no, I've seen every single blue color/ civil servant/ father of five/ whatever who really wanted one...like REALLY wanted one...put together the cash and buy one. Maybe not right away. Maybe not the full custom with the Tin barrel and the custom serial number, but they bought a 2011 that improved their shooting and enjoyment of the game. When I was in retail selling guns, the guys who said they couldn't afford them were always the guys bought cheap guns from me monthly and never bought a single box of ammo. So in my experience, the only people who can't afford them are people who like buying guns more than they like shooting guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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