Steve Koski Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 Here's my email to IDPA. Send yours in today. Comment period closes Dec 3rd. To: comments@idpa.com Subj: A01608 Steve Koski Dear IDPA, The new rules have some definite simplifications, which I like. But the 1 second per point down rule rewards accuracy over speed way too much. Take a Bill Drill (6 shots on one target). Shooter A draws from concealment and fires 6 shots it in 2.5 seconds and is down 2 points. This is great shooting and they would be well served in a self defense situation. But they will loose to shooter B who does it in 4.49 seconds but is down zero. 1 second per point down will change how IDPA is shot. People will be looking for, and making up down 1 hits, which seems a little crazy from a self defense perspective. 1 second per point down is "not defensive" scoring. It's accuracy heavy scoring, like GSSF. Please don't implement the change to 1 second per point down. Don't fix what's not broken. Thanks, Steve Koski A01608 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirbinster Posted November 16, 2016 Share Posted November 16, 2016 Said just about the same thing to them, and explained that too many people already look at IDPA as an old person's game and this will drive more young people away from the sport. This rule will actually only impact a few people that are in the middle. The top shooters will still be the top shooters and the bottom shooters will still be the bottom shooters. It's a fix searching for a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlincoln Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Koski makes a somewhat valid point but....what if those 2 down were the first shots and didn't stop the threat? Being an old fart, I like the change. (in IDPA) It should help make me more competitive with the young guns. Just for the record, I do shoot USPSA (as a Super Senior) but I just try to shoot all A's since there is no way I can run fast anymore and I lost my cleats somewhere after college. Two different sports, both fun. JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 4 minutes ago, jdlincoln said: Koski makes a somewhat valid point but....what if those 2 down were the first shots and didn't stop the threat? Being an old fart, I like the change. (in IDPA) It should help make me more competitive with the young guns. Just for the record, I do shoot USPSA (as a Super Senior) but I just try to shoot all A's since there is no way I can run fast anymore and I lost my cleats somewhere after college. Two different sports, both fun. JD It really wont though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlincoln Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 well, I guess we shall see JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted November 17, 2016 Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 I have been criticized for my 2.5 vs 4.49 second Bill Drill comparison as "not fair." Let's try three targets at 15-35 yards. Shooter A blazes all six shots in 4 seconds and is down 3 + 1 points, score = 8. Shooter B fires 11 shots in 7.5 seconds, down zero. Who is the better defensive shooter? Who wins the stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 (edited) Gonna be make up shots crazy! Why wouldn't you?! Got a -1 ? Fire off another shot in .5 sec and you still come out .5 ahead. Why wouldn't you mag dump now? Go empty and score better! Kinda feel like this is the same as coddling millennials who don't like someone who says mean things! The real world bad guys someone might face aren't gonna slow down so someone can get a better shot on them. If you're slow, sorry. That may keep you from making EX/MA but you'll be competing against other folks at the same skill/ability level. We just gonna let someone be a MA because they're tired of getting beat by MA's? The new classifier is gonna do that! I mean, what next? We gonna start younger people further back from targets? Edited November 17, 2016 by B_RAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Like in other sports, heck even trap shooting, pretty soon there will be a handicapping system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 A second per point makes adding scores easier but I agree with most of you that it'll add nothing of certain advantage otherwise. Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 My email is still sitting as a draft as I'm trying to compose something cogent and persuasive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertbank Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 I think the decision was made before a lot of thought went into it. The new Classifier is going to provide some interesting results. In ASI we went with 1 second per point down to make it easier to score and to focus on accuracy but ASI is not for the truly competitive shooter. The sport is aimed at folks who just want to shoot and improve their basic firearm skills. IDPA has made several rule changes that has caused a more run and gun situation that distracts from the sport IMHO. Run & Gun can be had in USPSA now, we don't need a 2md sport where the only real difference is the amount of rounds shot in a stage, You allow: Reloading anywhere you can't see an un-engaged target Allow target re-engagement from different shooting positions other than set out in the CoF if safe to do so Allow Vision Barriers (We now have shooters charging targets - now that is real world defensive shooting.) Virtually eliminate cover calling Then want to slow the sport down by making each point down worth one second? Seems to me they might of thought out the affects of some of the rule changes BEFORE they allowed the pet ideas of some to make it through to the rule book. Watch what happens to folks Classifications with the new RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanCdp Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 On 11/20/2016 at 8:38 AM, rowdyb said: My email is still sitting as a draft as I'm trying to compose something cogent and persuasive. What ?? so being persuasive, are you sending a fuel card for the plane also?? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 hahaha, i just don't want to write an email only from emotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, rowdyb said: hahaha, i just don't want to write an email only from emotion. It won't have any effect on the outcome anyway. The worst aspect of IDPA is the authoritarian rule of the sport. I don't always agree with Stoeger, but I do agree that you will not learn to shoot faster by shooting slow. The entire reason for 1pt=1sec is to slow shooters down for accuracy. That should not be a goal at all. Teaching shooters to learn to shoot faster and accurately should be the goal. Through competition with better shooters this should occur. IDPA needs to decide what its identity is, practice for concealed carry or a competitive sport. It will die a slow death as a concealed carry practice. I have a hell of a time figuring out why Bill Wilson wants a concealed carry organization. If that is what IDPA is there will only be one gun brand...Glock...the one goes bang every trigger pull. No...I do not shoot Glock. I shoot the brand that breaks trigger return springs and slide lock pins every six months, but I sure as heck do not carry those. Edited November 24, 2016 by Brooke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 (edited) On 11/15/2016 at 9:55 AM, Steve Koski said: Here's my email to IDPA. Send yours in today. Comment period closes Dec 3rd. Do you really think it will be read? Edited November 27, 2016 by deerslayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 1 minute ago, deerslayer said: Do you really think it will be read? Lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronArcher Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Of course it will be read...they need to sift through the e-mails for and against so they can publish the ones for 1pt/sec and throw away the ones against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I sent my comments. I did comment that I preferred the current scoring to the new proposed 1 pd = 1 sec.. I don't believe for a minute they're gonna stay with the current scoring. The majority of thier membership is 50+. They want to slow the game down. Everyone over 50 that I've talked to about this says pretty much the exact same thing. Something along the lines of "it'll keep gamers from winning based on speed". What I think is the funniest about that is the "gammer" reference. Everyone of them has used that term. I look at them and say, "it's not a game"? Some actually believe it's real world training! Oh well,.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 I am way 50+ and I do not approve Joyce Count scoring. What is a "gammer?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronArcher Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Getting close to 50.... HATE 1 pt/sec!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHARLES D Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 I sent Brian Wilson (Son) a comment and questions years ago. Still waiting for a response. Good luck getting one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjl Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 If people are insistent in changing the scoring system to emphasize accuracy, here is my recommendation for an alternative to 1 pd = 1 second proposed change: Keep 1 pd = 0.5 seconds Change the 3 point zone to 8 points Make misses equal to 10 points Double the FTN penalty. This would appeal/appease the tactical crowd as "flesh wounds" would be penalized while center of mass hits (even those in the -1 zone) would be unchanged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronArcher Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 I'm downSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 So down. I recommended increasing the miss to 10 pd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ngodwetrust21 Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 I sent my email. I have informed IDPA if they move forward with the 1 second down rule, I will stop shooting IDPA entirely and will not renew my membership when it expires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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