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[SCTaylor]

12 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

Just to clarify

I do not think this is a good idea, it was more a reductio ad absurdum

The point being in a defensive use if force a 10 second perfect shot will always loose to a 1 second slightly less good shot and the 30 other shots that could be taken in that period of time.

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Gotcha. It's 50* in Houston, it has broken my sarcasm meter.

[johniac7078]

On 11/30/2016 at 0:06 AM, B_RAD said:

This^^^^!

 

and how hard is it to PD x .5 + time?

 

 

 

I call it the "Math is Hard" rule.  

[IronArcher]

Especially when you have an iPad doing the math!


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[GMB]

If enough of the membership choose to use their funds for other shooting sports and hobbies and their revenue goes down, I'm sure they would take notice. It is after all a business!!!!! I have recently tried 3-gun and I must say it's fun. If IDPA decides to ignore us then fine. They don't need my money.

[GMB]

Glad they don't have a life membership, I'd have wasted money. lol ahhh hahahahaha

[ngodwetrust21]

2 hours ago, GMB said:

If enough of the membership choose to use their funds for other shooting sports and hobbies and their revenue goes down, I'm sure they would take notice. It is after all a business!!!!! I have recently tried 3-gun and I must say it's fun. If IDPA decides to ignore us then fine. They don't need my money.

Totally agree. If everyone opposed to this told them they would not renew their membership and then followed through with it, their minds would be changed very quickly. Money talks...

[BillR1]

7 hours ago, ngodwetrust21 said:

Totally agree. If everyone opposed to this told them they would not renew their membership and then followed through with it, their minds would be changed very quickly. Money talks...

That's always been an option. Joyce Wilson herself even suggested that the people that didn't agree with IDPA's rules should probably find another game to shoot. There are many of us that will still shoot IDPA after the new rule book goes into effect. I'm really looking forward to the new strategies and challenges. Bring on 2017!!

[GMB]

The biggest issue for most of us is the scoring change. IMO they are trying to slow down the faster and younger shooters.  Steve Koski is on point with his first post and example to start this discussion off. The current penalty for PD at .5 is fine. As numerous posters have mentioned and suggested raise the penalty for misses and hits on non-threats. Hopefully HQ's listens!!

[v1911]

I could give a rat's ass about the scoring. That's a short term issue. Once people stop worrying so much and find something else to complain about, things will settle down again.

My beef is with the equipment change. The new scoring doesn't stand to potentially cost me thousands. The suggested rule changes surrounding equipment does.  

[GMB]

1 hour ago, v1911 said:

I could give a rat's ass about the scoring. That's a short term issue. Once people stop worrying so much and find something else to complain about, things will settle down again.

My beef is with the equipment change. The new scoring doesn't stand to potentially cost me thousands. The suggested rule changes surrounding equipment does.  

One could argue that the equipment rule changes are a short term issue as well. Bottom line is what they are attempting to fix with scoring and equipment are not the issue's. At least you'll have a really cool carry gun.

[Tokarev]

Bottom line is what they are attempting to fix with scoring and equipment are not the issue's.

What are they trying to fix?

More punitive scoring might appeal to the 50+ crowd but what does tightening the specs on BUG guns fix?

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[Steppenwolf]

Tokarev:

You note what many of us have identified as the essential core issue with the new rules changes. "What are they trying to fix?" That simple core issue includes the scoring and equipment changes that were discussed in this thread.

The answer to the question has also been noted. In a nutshell, "IDPA is not a democracy and decisions are made by HQ." Membership feedback did not drive the changes. Membership feedback will not deter the new changes from being implemented. Even though the discussion resulted in bandied about comments for and against the new scoring, we all know that the new scoring will be implemented. My best guesstimate explanation for the two changes most affecting everyone are: New scoring change was implemented because surveys of members indicate that the majority "claim" that they do not shoot IDPA for competitive reasons. Some hint that the reasons for the equipment changes can be found in new Wilson Combat product offerings, but that is speculative and there is no way to currently demonstrate the veracity of that assertion.

The underlying issue is that many people believe that HQ ignores its membership and therefore the changes are being pushed from above. Other people are apathetic and do not care. Exercise in frustration or just a bunch of old farts griping--pick your poison.

P.S. Bill from AZ: This post is a summary--there is no need to repeat that you support the new changes and are looking forward to them. We all know where you stand.

[GMB]

Increasing the penalties for hits on NT targets stays true to the IDPA ideal. Increasing the PD to 1sec is a move in the wrong direction IMO. There needs to be a balance of speed and accuracy. In a defensive situation the fastest and more accurate shooter will win. Like everyone else, I have no idea why the changes in equipment rules. I like most thought they were fine. Oh well. Let's see if the membership do their talking with their wallets and purses!!!! For the upcoming year we only have one IDPA major scheduled, the rest of the matches will most likely be USPSA and some 3 Gun. Maybe my thoughts will in the topic will change if I get fat and slow.

[Jim Watson]

4 hours ago, Tokarev said:

More punitive scoring might appeal to the 50+ crowd

I am very 50+ and I do not approve this statement.  And I wish you young whippersnappers would quit putting words in my mouth.

[Tokarev]

Increasing the penalties for hits on NT targets stays true to the IDPA ideal. Increasing the PD to 1sec is a move in the wrong direction IMO. There needs to be a balance of speed and accuracy. In a defensive situation the fastest and more accurate shooter will win. Like everyone else, I have no idea why the changes in equipment rules. I like most thought they were fine. Oh well. Let's see if the membership do their talking with their wallets and purses!!!! For the upcoming year we only have one IDPA major scheduled, the rest of the matches will most likely be USPSA and some 3 Gun. Maybe my thoughts will in the topic will change if I get fat and slow.

I am very 50+ and I do not approve this statement.  And I wish you young whippersnappers would quit putting words in my mouth.

I'm 48 next month.

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[Jim Watson]

I will be 72 next month and I think .5 second is was best.

[GMB]

Looks like IDPA is turning into IDPGAYYYYY!!!!! Just sayin, no offense to those living the alternative lifestyle out there. Have a great day everybody.

 

[carlspeed]

I wonder what their motivation is for the rule change?

[IronArcher]

The only thing I have seen was that they 'want us to be responsible for every shot'.
Of course that makes absolutely zero sense based on the new scoring rules.
The other possible reason suggested was that a certain founder ended up taking 2nd place to a faster, less accurate shooter, and that didn't sit well with him.
While the latter is purely speculation, it IS much more logical than the former.


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[MemphisMechanic]

On 12/11/2016 at 10:06 AM, IronArcher said:

a certain founder ended up taking 2nd place to a faster, less accurate shooter, and that didn't sit well with him.

It was also a double slap to the face, as a master was taken out by an inaccurate expert.

*cough cough* Arkansas State 2015 *cough cough*

And yes, Wayne was CCP division champ.

Edited December 25, 2016 by MemphisMechanic

[v1911]

Our club has been running new rules for about a month now in preparation to the new rule book. Here's my take away.

• As soon as one shooter sets fastest raw time, it's on like Donkey Kong

-1 just means that people are:

• Getting into position quicker
• Breaking of shots sooner
• Working on quicker transitions
• Increasing their foot speed
• Spending more time calculating risk/reward with reloads/round dumping

Why? Because they need to create additional time to be able to send makeup shots to ensure a higher percentage of a -0.

 

Not much has changed in our overall standings. But if you happen to miss a shot, that 5 seconds really stings. Normally our top finishers are so close in time that just hitting a NT or dropping a shot could mean you lost several rankings.

[MemphisMechanic]

I quit shooting IDPA when "never make it up unless you're sure it's a -3" was sound advice for intermediate shooters.

That would be one interesting aspect of the new rulebook: Everything is now worth making up, unless you've physically committed to exiting the shooting position.

Poor excuse for "defensive style shooting" in my mind. I'd take two smoking fast -1 hits on my attacker before he can get a shot off, any day.

[Tokarev]

Poor excuse for "defensive style shooting" in my mind. I'd take two smoking fast -1 hits on my attacker before he can get a shot off, any day.

+1 on this. Maybe rename it IBPA "International Bullseye Pistol Association."

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[v1911]

It's a game.

Its not for everyone.

If you don't feel it's for you, then don't participate.

Stop trying to relate real life with IDPA. They are not one in the same and those of us in the game have come to terms with that. 

Trying to make sense of the rules from a logical point of view could induce an aneurism. So don't do it. 

[MemphisMechanic]

7 hours ago, v1911 said:

Trying to make sense of the rules from a logical point of view could induce an aneurism. So don't do it. 

Oh don't worry. I no longer make the mistake of shooting IDPA.

And I say that with regret, not with a smile. I shot IDPA for the better part of a decade, quite often.

They drove me off with inconsistent SO's at State matches... and random rule changes passed down by a governing body which the members didn't elect, and don't respect.

So I get to poke all the fun at it I like now. Not because I'm a "USPSA guy coming to troll" but because I tried to enjoy their sport, despite the vests, until they no longer made that possible. It took a lot of hard work, but they managed it.

I brought up "that isn't any kind of realistic defensive shooting" because Joyce did it first as her weak justification for trying to slow down the bullet squirters in order to give the 50+ year old shooters with bad knees a chance:

 

"As concealed carry holders, which many of our members are, we are responsible for every round that leaves our gun, and IDPA needs to reflect that in our practices."

 

I was merely pointing out the hilarity of their weak-sauce explanation, saying that we need to make the sport more like what you'd do in a gun fight... even though everyone who has ever watched a single defensive shooting on YouTube knows that it's not what anyone does in a gun fight.

"Keep your rounds on the bad guy and fire them before he hits you, and until he's out of the fight" seems to universally be the winning strategy. 

1. Make the entire -1 and -0 into the new zero down.

2. Give a half second penalty for -3.

3. Incur five seconds per miss.

4. Thirty seconds per noshoot. (Match ending disaster.)

...and you have my idea of "reflecting concealed carry practices" which Joyce refers to. Would I want to shoot it? Probably not. I liked the balance of speed and accuracy the "half second" rules required. But it was already slower than any real life shooting done by soldiers or civilians. 

And that was fine! Because it is a sport.

I'm just tired of them constantly making things worse and worse, claiming to make it more realistic each time, on their holy crusade to "try and stop the gamers."

Edited December 26, 2016 by MemphisMechanic