-1 Points down = 1 second?

[MilkMyDuds]

I hope someone from HQ reads this forum.

[rowdyb]

Just like the flat footed reload rule really was to help SO's with failing eye sight and slow foot speed have a better chance at making cover calls and such for reloading behind cover like we used to be able to do. (without dumb definitions of rooms and hallways. cover is cover.)

We now have a proposed rule that is really just to help people who are bad at math. Whole numbers are easier to add and multiply for the mathematically challenged. I'm being a smart azz, but it feels like it could be kinda true....

[BillR1]

The notion that IDPA is ANYTHING other than a game is absurd. The statement this"game where people carry guns for self defense...." ignores the fact that if you approached a gun fight using anything that resembled IDPA, you'd be dead.

From the rule book:

"...a handgun-centric shooting sport based on simulated self-defense scenarios."

and

"1.3.2.4 At its core, IDPA is a self-defense scenario based sport."

I like the new scoring idea a lot, and I would also suggest doubling the penalty for a HNT. Accuracy SHOULD be the primary goal for someone carrying a handgun for self-defense, and I'm all for a scoring system that rewards accuracy heavily. Yep, IDPA is a game and not "training". But it's a game based on self-defense. I personally see no issues with treating it (and scoring it) as such.

"Fast is fine, but accuracy is final. The trick is learning to take your time when you're in a hurry." - Wyatt Earp

[motosapiens]

In real life you'd get fired or possibly jail time for a hit on a nonthreat. Not putting people in jail just encourages gamers.

[MilkMyDuds]

Also in real life, you would not want to shoot with your 3'' handgun at bad guys whose 50% or more percent is covered by a hostage.

I think 1 sec/pt penalty is a good idea for realistic simulation, if all non-threats act like non-threats in a typical street gun fight, e.g. running away finding their own covers

[waktasz]

In real life you'd get fired or possibly jail time for a hit on a nonthreat. Not putting people in jail just encourages gamers.

ha, no you wouldn't.

The NYPD shoots civilians ALL THE TIME.

[9x45]

IDPA is a game invented by Bill Wilson (one of the greatest IPSC shooters ever). It is simply marketed as self defense and has become popular with the Tactical Plumber crowd. But in reality it is just different enough from USPSA to be a separate game.

Placement counts, but you better not take too long getting there, otherwise you might get lit up from nuts to neck. First shot, first down.

[motosapiens]

In real life you'd get fired or possibly jail time for a hit on a nonthreat. Not putting people in jail just encourages gamers.

ha, no you wouldn't.

The NYPD shoots civilians ALL THE TIME.

If you were in NYC you'd be in jail just for owning guns.

[johniac7078]

The notion that IDPA is ANYTHING other than a game is absurd. The statement this"game where people carry guns for self defense...." ignores the fact that if you approached a gun fight using anything that resembled IDPA, you'd be dead.

From the rule book:

"...a handgun-centric shooting sport based on simulated self-defense scenarios."

and

"1.3.2.4 At its core, IDPA is a self-defense scenario based sport."

I like the new scoring idea a lot, and I would also suggest doubling the penalty for a HNT. Accuracy SHOULD be the primary goal for someone carrying a handgun for self-defense, and I'm all for a scoring system that rewards accuracy heavily. Yep, IDPA is a game and not "training". But it's a game based on self-defense. I personally see no issues with treating it (and scoring it) as such.

"Fast is fine, but accuracy is final. The trick is learning to take your time when you're in a hurry." - Wyatt Earp

It's a game, nothing more. If it was about self defense, there would be no long range shots. Most self defense shooting are at what range? Tell you what, shoot someone at 20 yards and then convince a jury that is was self defense. Lastly, Wyatt Earp never said slow was good.

[Peplow530]

DNF - Did Not Finish?

By the rulebook if a competitors guns jams up and they just give up and say that they can't continue the DNF scoring says they get the better scoring method, either the time when stoped plus all points and penalties or 3 seconds per shot required on the stage and no other time or penalties. Almost always the 3 seconds per shot will be better. As an example a 12 round stage is a flat 36 seconds. On some more complicated stages a Marksman shooter will end up with a better score than his competitors. The joke is if you could take the DNF scoring on every stage you would beat some people at the match. At a 120 round match your score would be 360. If they went to one second per point down the DNF scoring would look even better at the marksman level.

If you choose not to shoot a stage you receive a DNF and no score at all for that stage. Which also takes you out of the ranks. The 3 seconds per a shot you speak of is for an incomplete stage, e.g. A stage that was started but not completed due to equipment failure or injury. Edited September 22, 2015 by Peplow530

[BillR1]

It's a game, nothing more. If it was about self defense, there would be no long range shots. Most self defense shooting are at what range? Tell you what, shoot someone at 20 yards and then convince a jury that is was self defense. Lastly, Wyatt Earp never said slow was good.

The rule book states that the sport is self-defense based. I was simply showing those statements. I'm sure we can all cherry-pick some stages and COFs that could get someone in trouble in a court of law. That doesn't change the design of the sport.

No, Wyatt Earp probably never said "slow is good". Did I miss something? I looked back at my post, but didn't see that one anywhere...?

[Gryff]

IDPA is a game invented by Bill Wilson (one of the greatest IPSC shooters ever). It is simply marketed as self defense and has become popular with the Tactical Plumber crowd. But in reality it is just different enough from USPSA to be a separate game.

Placement counts, but you better not take too long getting there, otherwise you might get lit up from nuts to neck. First shot, first down.

Please define "tactical plumber." You're belittling of IDPA shooters is starting to get old.

[johniac7078]

It's a game, nothing more. If it was about self defense, there would be no long range shots. Most self defense shooting are at what range? Tell you what, shoot someone at 20 yards and then convince a jury that is was self defense. Lastly, Wyatt Earp never said slow was good.

The rule book states that the sport is self-defense based. I was simply showing those statements. I'm sure we can all cherry-pick some stages and COFs that could get someone in trouble in a court of law. That doesn't change the design of the sport.

No, Wyatt Earp probably never said "slow is good". Did I miss something? I looked back at my post, but didn't see that one anywhere...?

The point is that idea is flawed. Regardless of what the rule book says. The rule book also said you can't reload behind cover in the past, didn't make it right.

[9x45]

Gryff, and how long have you been playing IDPA? I started the Apple Valley IDPA back in March of 98, the 3rd club in CA, behind Mike Dalton at Piru and Bill Heyder at Oceanside. It was made up of mostly USPSA guys who were looking for something different. The stages were straight forward, there wasn't a bunch of subjective RO cover call nonsense, nor "This is how you should shoot it" Then somewhere along the line, after several years went by, the game started to get infiltrated with "Tactical Plumbers" No previous competition experience, but have been thru Front Sight 17 times, and think that a 10 second Bill Drill is bad ash, and tell you exactly how to shoot IDPA. Everyone knows the kind I am talking about too. "Don't stick your gun window, it's not tactical!" "Make sure you look around you before unloading" "You need to use rear sights that hook, what if you are shot in the left arm? and need to reload" Really, I love that one. Most likely my gun will be on the ground with blood on it, but wait, it's just a game. When we started running IDPA, we adhered to Bills principles, running your actual CCW weapon from a IWB holster and with full house ammo and everyday dress. So when did it get to a G34 with all the allowable mods running at 125.2PF from a OWB competition holster, 5.11 pants, a spring loaded mylar lined photog vest?

[CrashDodson]

Where can I get one of these spring loaded vests?

[Gryff]

Gryff, and how long have you been playing IDPA? I started the Apple Valley IDPA back in March of 98, the 3rd club in CA, behind Mike Dalton at Piru and Bill Heyder at Oceanside. It was made up of mostly USPSA guys who were looking for something different. The stages were straight forward, there wasn't a bunch of subjective RO cover call nonsense, nor "This is how you should shoot it" Then somewhere along the line, after several years went by, the game started to get infiltrated with "Tactical Plumbers" No previous competition experience, but have been thru Front Sight 17 times, and think that a 10 second Bill Drill is bad ash, and tell you exactly how to shoot IDPA. Everyone knows the kind I am talking about too. "Don't stick your gun window, it's not tactical!" "Make sure you look around you before unloading" "You need to use rear sights that hook, what if you are shot in the left arm? and need to reload" Really, I love that one. Most likely my gun will be on the ground with blood on it, but wait, it's just a game. When we started running IDPA, we adhered to Bills principles, running your actual CCW weapon from a IWB holster and with full house ammo and everyday dress. So when did it get to a G34 with all the allowable mods running at 125.2PF from a OWB competition holster, 5.11 pants, a spring loaded mylar lined photog vest?

Eleven years (during which I have run five sanctioned matches in California). Your broad and repeated generalizations are occasionally accurate, but not applicable to the vast number of IDPA shooters with whom I've shot (including matches across seven other states).

Edited September 22, 2015 by Gryff

[motosapiens]

Gryff, and how long have you been playing IDPA? I started the Apple Valley IDPA back in March of 98, the 3rd club in CA, behind Mike Dalton at Piru and Bill Heyder at Oceanside. It was made up of mostly USPSA guys who were looking for something different. The stages were straight forward, there wasn't a bunch of subjective RO cover call nonsense, nor "This is how you should shoot it" Then somewhere along the line, after several years went by, the game started to get infiltrated with "Tactical Plumbers" No previous competition experience, but have been thru Front Sight 17 times, and think that a 10 second Bill Drill is bad ash, and tell you exactly how to shoot IDPA. Everyone knows the kind I am talking about too. "Don't stick your gun window, it's not tactical!" "Make sure you look around you before unloading" "You need to use rear sights that hook, what if you are shot in the left arm? and need to reload" Really, I love that one. Most likely my gun will be on the ground with blood on it, but wait, it's just a game. When we started running IDPA, we adhered to Bills principles, running your actual CCW weapon from a IWB holster and with full house ammo and everyday dress. So when did it get to a G34 with all the allowable mods running at 125.2PF from a OWB competition holster, 5.11 pants, a spring loaded mylar lined photog vest?

Eleven years (during which I have run five sanctioned matches in California). Your broad and repeated generalizations are occasionally accurate, but not applicable to the vast number of IDPA shooters with whom I've shot (including matches across seven other states).

I'm sure he was only talking about the ones to whom it IS applicable.

[BillR1]

The point is that idea is flawed. Regardless of what the rule book says. The rule book also said you can't reload behind cover in the past, didn't make it right.

"flawed" and "right" are matters of opinion. Opinions vary...

[GmanCdp]

I ZEROED 2 stages at the World shoot. So I'm set to go..lol

[Brian Gonsalves]

I think it's a good idea (though I do agree, we made it a long time with the current system)!

When did shooting accurately become a bad thing???

I shoot USPSA, ICORE, IDPA and NSSF Rimfire, enjoy them all and shooting accurately is important in all of them. You say you'll have to slow down to shoot all "-0's" What about in Rimfire or Steel Challenge, there's no -1 or -3 to save you there? What about shooting minor in USPSA and shooting A's?

Let's face it the people at the top are the ones that shoot accurately, fast! No matter what they wear! Sure at club matches or smaller sanctioned some shooters with mediocre skill can spray and pray their way to a classification win, but not a division win. Sooner or later they must shoot accurately!

[motosapiens]

Let's face it the people at the top are the ones that shoot accurately, fast! No matter what they wear! Sure at club matches or smaller sanctioned some shooters with mediocre skill can spray and pray their way to a classification win, but not a division win. Sooner or later they must shoot accurately!

Unless they are bad at math, those same people can probably shoot accurately faster than the turtles too. They'll still be less accurate than the turtles, but faster enough to beat them easily.

[Ty Hamby]

Unless they are bad at math, those same people can probably shoot accurately faster than the turtles too. They'll still be less accurate than the turtles, but faster enough to beat them easily.

Huh??

[racknrider]

I'm usually faster enough to beat the local turtles and thankfully electronic scoring means no more math.

[9x45]

Gryff, I know who you are now! You were the match director at a CA State in San Luis Obispo a few years ago? Right? Where some clown went up the hill and turned around with a loaded gun and pointed it at the lunch tent, and went on to do some goofy range trick? And what happened with that? Did you DQ the idiot shooter and the RO who helped him? And DQ yourself as MD? And report that incident to IDPA HQ? Right?

You have heard of event liability insurance, of course... No range owner will let you own their property without a proof of insurance. It's a single policy to protect you and your staff, and the range owners, and officers from issues like that. It does not protect the shooters. So did SLAP ever invite you back???

Edited September 23, 2015 by 9x45

[Gryff]

Gryff, I know who you are now! You were the match director at a CA State in San Luis Obispo a few years ago? Right? Where some clown went up the hill and turned around with a loaded gun and pointed it at the lunch tent, and went on to do some goofy range trick? And what happened with that? Did you DQ the idiot shooter and the RO who helped him? And DQ yourself as MD? And report that incident to IDPA HQ? Right?

You have heard of event liability insurance, of course... No range owner will let you own their property without a proof of insurance. It's a single policy to protect you and your staff, and the range owners, and officers from issues like that. It does not protect the shooters. So did SLAP ever invite you back???

I've never shot or been to a match at San Luis Obispo, so no, I am not who you are thinking of.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Gryff