Rules you would like to see changed.

[Daft]

I would like a handicap like in golf. I need about a minus 30 second please. I have no problem with rules.

[TonyH]

Let's break what isn't broken. We have more matches around the country than ever before and nearly all of them fill.

We have two problems and neither have to do with rules.

#1 Not enough workers of matches.

#2 New guys shooting 3-Gun as their very first competition shooting event. (I want to juggle 3 running chains saws before I know how to hold one)

BOOM!!!!!!

[Jim Norman]

I agree wholeheartedly with #2 above I would make it #1 in bold. There is little that is scarier than a first timer 'that knows everything since he read it on the internet' shooting a USPSA match except the same guy deciding that 3-Gun is where he wants to be! Compound this by not only not having shot an action match, but toss in I just got this Rifle/Shotgun/Pistol last week and haven't shot it yet.

Now #1 above we can MAYBE fix with proper match management and so long as we don't scare them off with the new to shooting 'competitors'. None of us like getting swept!

[dcloudy777]

I agree that 3-Gun isn't the best way for someone to start out in competitive shooting, but how do you fix that? A lot of folks have spent a ton of time and resources making 3-gun as fun and appealing as possible.

I don't think anyone wants to make the game less attractive to new shooters... that's a recipe for disaster in the long run.

Maybe clubs that run 3-gun and some other game (USPSA, IDPA, whatever) could offer free or discounted match entry fees for shooting both disciplines, a "bulk discount" entry fee schedule, if you will.

A "mentor" program at the club level might not be bad idea. A shooter shoots his/her first 3 (or 5, or whatever) club matches basically joined at the hip with a club member that's a more seasoned shooter. It doesn't even have to be that great of a shooter, just one who has been around the block a thousand times. This could bring a lot of other benefits to a club too, if you have the right kind of volunteer mentors.

Every club with even a modest flow of new shooters should be doing "intro to competitive shooting" clinics. Again, you don't need GMs and pros to do this, just experienced shooters that can teach folks about range commands, administrative gun handling, moving safely, the basic "I don't scare ROs anymore" stuff. Write a simple curriculum (somebody here probably already has one they'd be happy to share) and find people willing to take a day. Maybe even have a little 1-2 stage "match" at the end, give away a free match entry, or a hat or something.

Just thinking out loud.

[Jim Norman]

And the above is what we do at my home club(s)

We have a twice monthly indoor 'Practice Match' for USPSA where in a new shooter gets about 90 minutes of lecture/classroom time with the rules scoring and history, then they get a live fire safety check to see if they can actually manipulate their firearm, in this case a pistol only, and then they are mentored through a 4 stage match. At our outdoor regular matches we can't do the 90 minutes so we do a much abbreviated version then the live fire safety check, then they are mentored through the match by the senior people on their respective squad. This has worked very well and we've introduced hundreds of people into USPSA shooting this way. Those that are not or that we are not comfortable with are not sent away, but are encouraged to shoot our various steel matches where movement is reduced or eliminated giving them the opportunity to learn to draw and engage targets.

3-GUn we only run a few times a year and we do essentially the same thing.

BUT, this is at the CLUB LEVEL. we have time and there is little on the table so the shooters don't feel the burden of mentoring as they might if they were shooting for a new rifle or other prizes. Major three-gun should somehow and I surely do not pretend to know how, but there needs to be some sort of vetting of new shooters. Are you a classified USPSA/IDPA Shooter? Cowboy Action? Even maybe Steel Challenge. I do not have the answer, but while bringing in newbies is critical to our survival, so is surviving and some newbies (and a few not so newbie) could be a threat to that!

[alma]

Let me just say that sandbag grip add ons should not be legal in TacOps/Practical division. I don't understand how they were deemed to be legal in the first place since they obviously elevate the muzzle and should be restricted to open.

Even then, it looks like some competitors in TacOps/Practical who are using them may be only putting them on their guns for particular stages. The action of reconfiguring what is bolted to your rifle is also not allowed outside of Open/Unlimited.

Can the rules please be clarified to limit the bags to Open/Unlimited?

[Lead-Head]

I would think sandbags attached to rifles would be against any TO/TI/HM rule set. Where are they allowed?

[kurtm]

We allow them, the rule reads "any sandbag attached to the rifle must be attached at all times. You may not install or remove after the first shot is fired. This only applies to sandbags 80 pounds and heavier, lighter sandbags are not allowed"

[kurtm]

On a serious note, our rules very specifically state all ammunition MUST make the minimum power floor for the respective division. We don't list it by caliber.

We also allow magazine fed shotguns in tac non magnified and tac optic, 8 round mags no comps, no dots.

[EaZeNuTZ33]

We allow them, the rule reads "any sandbag attached to the rifle must be attached at all times. You may not install or remove after the first shot is fired. This only applies to sandbags 80 pounds and heavier, lighter sandbags are not allowed"

[Benelli Chick]

We allow them, the rule reads "any sandbag attached to the rifle must be attached at all times. You may not install or remove after the first shot is fired. This only applies to sandbags 80 pounds and heavier, lighter sandbags are not allowed"

[TonytheTiger]

That makes my sandbag legal. Its 5'8", 165lbs and usually has a holstered pistol and a bunch of shell caddies attached to it. I usually fill it with coffee to make it heavier, I'm worried it'll spring a leak someday though...

[MarkCO]

Let's break what isn't broken. We have more matches around the country than ever before and nearly all of them fill.

We have two problems and neither have to do with rules.

#1 Not enough workers of matches.

#2 New guys shooting 3-Gun as their very first competition shooting event. (I want to juggle 3 running chains saws before I know how to hold one)

BOOM!!!!!!

Maybe not THE solution, but an idea at least.

In order to shoot a major match of any kind, you must have earned 5 points in the previous 6 months.

Shoot a local match, earn 1 point.

MD a local match, earn 1 point (in addition if also shoot it)

Apply to a major match before it is full and do not get in, earn 1 point

Work a major match, earn 2 points

Seniors who competed prior to becoming a senior are exempt, otherwise must use points for first major.

Matches that fill within 2 weeks or less of open applications may, at their discretion, require a higher point floor in order to guarantee entry. Staff who work a match do not have to have any points. Since it is just 6 months and 5 points, the match applications could require match name and date and proof of denial for a different major.

While there are more and more matches being run "for profit" the majority are not and they still rely on volunteers. Since volunteers can not legally be used at the for profit matches, those matches would not earn you any points. Again, just an idea.

[warpspeed]

I would like to see both hotdogs and buns come in packages of 8.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=218751&hl=

[DaveG]

The only rule I would like to see is if the Match director lets someone shoot thru they should be put at the bottom of the rotation or at least help reset the stages a couple of times.

[Jim Norman]

Here's one; No one, I mean NO ONE gets to shoot the match before the RO Squad! There have been a number of times where a sponsored shooter has had the opportunity to shoot the match at the completion of set-up, a day before the ROs shoot. Seems OK at first, but when full squads then shoot a stage and certain logistical or safety issues or competitive issues crop up, the match has been shot, the early shooter is not there to reshoot so we have two possibilities, toss a stage at the beginning of the match or shoot it as is. Shooting it as is has in the instances I am aware of cause that stage to be noticeably slower in resetting and set-up. No one should be THAT important.

[P.E. Kelley]

A competitor who shoots the match before the match is NOT a competitor...as no one was there to compete with!

(I am not talking about RO's)

[Doug H.]

Here's one; No one, I mean NO ONE gets to shoot the match before the RO Squad! There have been a number of times where a sponsored shooter has had the opportunity to shoot the match at the completion of set-up, a day before the ROs shoot. Seems OK at first, but when full squads then shoot a stage and certain logistical or safety issues or competitive issues crop up, the match has been shot, the early shooter is not there to reshoot so we have two possibilities, toss a stage at the beginning of the match or shoot it as is. Shooting it as is has in the instances I am aware of cause that stage to be noticeably slower in resetting and set-up. No one should be THAT important.

Actually there is third possibility. You make any required changes to the stage and then require a re-shoot for any competitors that have completed the stage before the changes. Shooter left town and can't re-shoot, unfortunate but that shooter gets a zero on the stage.

Doug

[Chuck Anderson]

I'd like a rule that Doug Hartley and Scott Hawkins are required to run at least one major match a year. Preferably in Bend, OR. It should be titled the Northwest Multigun. You can find the rule under 1.1.5.GetyourbuttsbacktoworksoIcanhavefun

[Doug H.]

I'd like a rule that Doug Hartley and Scott Hawkins are required to run at least one major match a year. Preferably in Bend, OR. It should be titled the Northwest Multigun. You can find the rule under 1.1.5.GetyourbuttsbacktoworksoIcanhavefun

I kinda like you running matches so I can just shoot!

Doug

[Chuck Anderson]

Sorry, it's a rule now. And I am running one this September. You just need to travel a bit to get there.

[Stlhead]

Chuck, you know as well as anyone, matches east of the Mississippi River don't count.

[Chuck Anderson]

Only for wusses who won't get on a plane. Come on, don't be afraid. Actually some of the best three gun matches I've shot have been east of the Mississippi. Ft. Benning always put on a good match, and I did have fun at the FNH 3 Gun I shot.

[Stlhead]

Oh Chuck, I was hoping for more of your famous sardonic wit than that. I have no problem getting on planes and other flying contraptions, but my guns don't seem to like to follow me. Don't confuse my comments as somehow impugning the quality of the matches back east, that was not the intent at all. Just to be clear, My meaning was that running a major match on the eastern side of the country is not the same as running a major match in your home state where those that know and endure your crass personality can enjoy the fruits of your labor. Attending a match that you run, especially one that I know you have worked very hard on warms my heart. The thought of you toiling for the amusement of those that attend your matches (including myself) motivates me to no end.

Now before you get all mushy and reply to this post with all sorts of sweet words take notice that I used the words "hard on" in a post without referring to my penis, and I purposely left out the word cockles when you know it would have slipped right in. Whoops.

[Fathead302]

The only rule I would like to see is if the Match director lets someone shoot thru they should be put at the bottom of the rotation or at least help reset the stages a couple of times.

I don't understand shoot throughs. If you cannot devote the time for a match, then that match is not one that you should sign up for. I have only seen one shoot through at a major match. Guy shows up at the end of the day (super hot and humid), hops out of his air conditioned ride, watches a couple runs, shoots, then scoots on to impose on another squad at another stage. The rest of us had been resetting for each other all day long so we were all competing on an evenly worn out field. Maybe the rule should be "Shoot though competitors must pay each member of the squad they are shooting through $10 or 10 pushups, not to exceed 200 pushups, done consecutively with a standby command given 10 seconds following completion."