motosapiens Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) I've been shooting several different match types for a few years. Recently I was thinking about making a competitive run at either USPSA or 3gun. This is pushing me to 3gun :/ I saw a plane crash on the news. I'm going to drive everywhere now. Regarding whether to concentrate on uspsa or 3-gun, I would do which ever one you like best, not whichever one has fewer internet scandals this week. I worked and shot our sectional match last weekend and it was a well-run match staffed and attended by some of the best folks you can find in america. Literally every one of the 100+ shooters I ran was pleasant and a good sportsman. I suspect 3gun is no different in that respect. Nobody really seemed concerned in the slightest that uspsa HQ wasn't reacting just they way they wanted to a story that only just broke in the last week or so. USPSA leadership certainly appear to me to be dealing with the situation, and the overwhelming majority of shooters seem to be reacting to it by saying "wow, i'm glad we don't have that problem here, and let's put even more effort into making sure something like that can't happen here." Of course there are always a few people cranky about anything that anyone does, and it appears they all have an internet connection. Edited June 24, 2014 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) I've been shooting several different match types for a few years. Recently I was thinking about making a competitive run at either USPSA or 3gun. This is pushing me to 3gun :/ A few bad actors should not make your decision for you. Do what YOU want to do and have fun at it. There are some stories about some in 3Gun that makes this look like child's play. And therin lies the truth. I have yet to run across any competition, or for that matter any sizeable organiztion that does not have cheaters and dishonest individuals in them. There are just a certain number of people who view lying and cheating as acceptable and as such you will find them in any organization. Don't be shocked, just deal with them when they float to the top of the bowl, take corrective action if you can and then go back to what you enjoy doing. That other thing you think you will go to in order to get away from cheaters has them also. Guaranteed. Edited June 24, 2014 by Neomet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaycwebb Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I agree with what you guys are saying; some jackwagon cheating doesn't dissuade me from getting into a sport. A bunch of people losing their minds over it, is kind of negative. I'm likely to stick with USPSA simply because of the amount of matches available for me to shoot every month; I have 5 matches within 45 minutes of my house. That's pretty sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Remember, there are 20K+ USPSA members. The VAST majority of them are some of the best people on the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFlowers Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I've been shooting several different match types for a few years. Recently I was thinking about making a competitive run at either USPSA or 3gun. This is pushing me to 3gun :/ A few bad actors should not make your decision for you. Do what YOU want to do and have fun at it. There are some stories about some in 3Gun that makes this look like child's play. It's kind of all of it honestly. The Cheating, the HQs inablility to deal with it, peoples poor reactions to it. But you're right You think 3 Gun will be any better? In some ways its worse. No standardization, no central power mean you get good ROs, bad ROs, sometimes strange ruling, there is no communication, more money so more temptation. But USPSA, IDPA, 3 Gun, SASS... they all are made of people. 99% of which you would trust with your wife or your guns. And sometimes the 1% is the same 1%. In other words, go shoot. Shoot the sport you enjoy. Shoot multiples if you want. But don't let the 1% get you down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I agree with what you guys are saying; some jackwagon cheating doesn't dissuade me from getting into a sport. A bunch of people losing their minds over it, is kind of negative. By my count there are like 5 or 6 people losing their minds over it, and they seem to be the same people that lose their minds over other stuff too. Most of us are glad this was brought to light and glad USPSA is handling it and willing to wait a few days or weeks for them to announce their findings and actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) I agree with what you guys are saying; some jackwagon cheating doesn't dissuade me from getting into a sport. A bunch of people losing their minds over it, is kind of negative. By my count there are like 5 or 6 people losing their minds over it, and they seem to be the same people that lose their minds over other stuff too. Most of us are glad this was brought to light and glad USPSA is handling it and willing to wait a few days or weeks for them to announce their findings and actions. Agree. I work matches for Chuck, I have his email and his cell number...however I see absolutely no reason to even ask him anything about this until such time as the BOD provides the membership with their finding(s) and action(s) on the matter. I have not even bothered to ask my AD about it. Edited June 24, 2014 by MarkCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 "Shoot the sport you enjoy. Shoot multiples if you want. But don't let the 1% get you down." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thermobollocks Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 The members need to be informed of this but we should not air our dirty laundry in public. Which part of this counts as dirty laundry? If someone can produce evidence of a bona fide grievance then I think an organization like USPSA has nothing to lose and everything to gain by that evidence being open to the public. There's a big difference between "these Youtube videos reveal scoring shenanigans at (event)" and "man I think (guy) is a big ol' poop with a dumb face." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaycwebb Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 "Shoot the sport you enjoy. Shoot multiples if you want. But don't let the 1% get you down." Good advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) The members need to be informed of this but we should not air our dirty laundry in public. Which part of this counts as dirty laundry? If someone can produce evidence of a bona fide grievance then I think an organization like USPSA has nothing to lose and everything to gain by that evidence being open to the public. I don't think the "evidence" Chuck collected needs to be made public, but I believe his final report should be made public AFTER the BoD acts on it. I also believe Phil, Kim, or John should have put a blurb on both the USPSA FB page and the USPSA homepage acknowledging the issue and updating the status. First would have been a statement to the allegations, the member's suspension from ROing until the investigation is done, Chuck's appointment as investigator and closed with a request for members to allow the investigation to finish and the BoD to digest the report and act as appropriate. Instead there were crickets to the masses. Yes, some people (maybe even some Areas) were given info while others weren't. But for crying out loud, USPSA has a friggin homepage with lots of OLD stuff still on it. How about some current stuff? Edited June 24, 2014 by remoandiris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanniek71 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I just hope through all of this, USPSA powers that be release a statement that is something to the tune of: (and by statement I mean a 1/2 - one pager in the Front Sight magazine or something of the like We are sorry to say we have discovered dishonestly within our organization. We have thoroughly researched it and come to the conclusion that ___________ cheaters have been ____________ and going forward this is how situations like this will be dealt with. Our sport is built on honesty and this situation gave us no choice. Sweeping it under the rug and hiding it just brings up tons of questions and ill feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCringleberry Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Can someone explain to me why, with an official USPSA investigation (that was not announced on the USPSA page nor disbursed via email to membership or SC's) being conducted, that we have to read about it on the A6 Facebook page? President appoints someone, we hear about it on FB. Investigator asks for information vie doodie and FB, "result" announced via FB with a resignation from USPSA - no ban, no punishment, just an allowance to slip quietly into the night, and membership is not being informed about it? Crickets chirping, vast majority of shooters in USPSA remain clueless. As if nothing ever happened. One of the largest scandals to impact our sport and if you don't facebook, chances are you don't hear about it. I am asking this as a USPSA member, not as a section coordinator because I don't want the issue clouded that in my "official" capacity as an SC I am speaking for the organization. The A4 Director announced all of the above (with exception of the members resignation) via direct email last week. If your AD didnt disburse the info to his Area membership, then complain directly to them...and vote them out of office. Are you saying all the ADs got an email about this situation? Are you sure about it? No thats not what I'm saying at all. I said that the A4D sent an email about it to inform the Area 4 members. Any AD that didnt do something similar, failed in their duties. Ok, if the A4D announced it, where did he get the info from? Was he going off of hearsay at the time or did he receive an official correspondence from within the organization? I just want to know how much was given to the ADs (mainly the A6D) and how much was put out before I start complaining to him. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Hearsay? Anyone with half a brain and the desire to know can easily watch the referenced videos with a stop watch and know that the rumors are true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RammerJammer Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I agree with what you guys are saying; some jackwagon cheating doesn't dissuade me from getting into a sport. A bunch of people losing their minds over it, is kind of negative. By my count there are like 5 or 6 people losing their minds over it, and they seem to be the same people that lose their minds over other stuff too. Most of us are glad this was brought to light and glad USPSA is handling it and willing to wait a few days or weeks for them to announce their findings and actions. I yhink the freakout is geographically based. If hq is a couple miles away no problem. If this is your area and your local membership praising him and freaking out about a meme thread saying this is no big deal but doodie is ruining uspsa its time to freak out.I sstarted to freak out when people started saying if you punish him goodluck finding people to work matches like cheating was a perk and section directors were trying to saint him. Its cool if you shoot matches with the uspsa pres. I shoot them with magic timer and his inner circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Doodie ruining USPSA????? I personally hated Doodie, then I found myself sneaking over there reading that drivel. Then I was posting. Then, ......then, well after eating a couple of their famous bags of cuisine, I started to see it for what it truly is. What is Doodie? That's for you to decide. I like to think its plain old fashioned speaking truth to authority. It ain't pretty over there, but it's always entertaining and truthful. Doodie is Enosvere's psycho significant other. Brash, bold, ballsy and bitchin'. I can no longer have one without the other and after your investigations, you'll feel the same. If not, then I've got some special bags of cuisine for you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB45 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Doodie ruining USPSA????? I personally hated Doodie, then I found myself sneaking over there reading that drivel. Then I was posting. Then, ......then, well after eating a couple of their famous bags of cuisine, I started to see it for what it truly is. What is Doodie? That's for you to decide. I like to think its plain old fashioned speaking truth to authority. It ain't pretty over there, but it's always entertaining and truthful. Doodie is Enosvere's psycho significant other. Brash, bold, ballsy and bitchin'. I can no longer have one without the other and after your investigations, you'll feel the same. If not, then I've got some special bags of cuisine for you!! Woa Woa, pump yo breaks. Your about to get warned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Doodie ruining USPSA????? I personally hated Doodie, then I found myself sneaking over there reading that drivel. Then I was posting. Then, ......then, well after eating a couple of their famous bags of cuisine, I started to see it for what it truly is. What is Doodie? That's for you to decide. I like to think its plain old fashioned speaking truth to authority. It ain't pretty over there, but it's always entertaining and truthful. Doodie is Enosvere's psycho significant other. Brash, bold, ballsy and bitchin'. I can no longer have one without the other and after your investigations, you'll feel the same. If not, then I've got some special bags of cuisine for you!! If you know even a little bit about Internet culture, then doodie is 4chan more or less... Edited June 25, 2014 by seanc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaute Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) I think we've deviated from the pith of this thread. That said, Doodie forum has its value(s). If you can put up with crass, foul language, and surly attitude, it's fine. I was a member of Doodie v.1, but have not registered for its latest incarnation. I don't think it's a particularly helpful place for people just starting. Although I don't subscribe to the styles of many Doodie members, the forum does provide a place to vent and to "freely" express your views. To each's own. Clearly, we need to give Doodie members credit for uncovering (assuming they did) the +2 issue and highlighting it publicly. Even though I don't care of the invective used by a few Doodie members on FB, that's a different matter. Edited June 25, 2014 by justaute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ryder Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) I just see Doodie as less "restrictive", less governmentalized. Edited June 25, 2014 by Red Ryder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Very simple solution to this "cheating scandal" ban everybody involved RO shooter/shooters for life if it is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 An attempt to preempt a life long ban ...? call me cynical but that's exactly what it looked like to me too. no admission of cheating, just some nonsense about 'in review' and "fallen short of safeguarding trust" and "shortcomings" whatever the hell that's supposed to mean. He then mentions his future re-entry to the sport.. haha, not even an admission of guilt and he's already paving the way back...] He apologises for 'shortcomings'. we are not talking about an RO who had to leave early and didn't help pack up stages, or who was stuck in traffic and late for a match once or twice. We are talking about allegations of fraud. Allegations of cheating. If true they are a serious issue and cast doubt upon the results of everyone this guy has held a timer to. He not only advanced his mates, but also sabotaged others. Sure this is not life or death, but it's a serious issue none the less and no doubt people benefited from this financially and others have been penalised (both directly in having results of their runs sabotaged and indirectly even if not timed by this guy by having other competitors beat them when they shouldn't have). I would think that if proven this kind of action would warrant a life time ban from shooting sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RammerJammer Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Doodie ruining USPSA????? I personally hated Doodie, then I found myself sneaking over there reading that drivel. Then I was posting. Then, ......then, well after eating a couple of their famous bags of cuisine, I started to see it for what it truly is. What is Doodie? That's for you to decide. I like to think its plain old fashioned speaking truth to authority. It ain't pretty over there, but it's always entertaining and truthful. Doodie is Enosvere's psycho significant other. Brash, bold, ballsy and bitchin'. I can no longer have one without the other and after your investigations, you'll feel the same. If not, then I've got some special bags of cuisine for you!! You missed the words before and after doodie is ruining uspsa The. Area 6 leadership and inner circle when faced with the fact that our match results are like a north korean election responded by: Doodie is ruining uspsa This is all trolling If you are mean to wsd we wont work any more matches Paul hendrix is an honorable wonderful man that contibuted greatly to area 6 and uspsa Whats not to freak out about? If its no big deal it will continue. If wsd is a pillar what are the scumbags doing? Should i pay 140 to get scores based on who i rode with? Doodie and their appropriate reaction is the only reason i renewed my membership. If everyone just said its not appropriate to discuss then i would assume they were cool with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanniek71 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Without the Doodies this likely would not have been uncovered. Agree or disagree with them, they got this in to the limelight where it belonged, not swept under a rug somewhere to be forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 It is starting to look like a knitted sweater....that has just this one loose yarn. You start pulling at it and the whole thing unravels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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