2010 Area 4 Championship May 20-23

[carinab]

I am not going to comment any more or get into a fight on this forum over things that happened or preceved to have happened. I have over 600 emails, and more than 250 hours into this match this year, not to mention that I have been gone from home since the 15th, and won't be home untill tommorrow night.

It has been common practice for proxys to be used at the prize table since I have been shooting. This is over 20 years. I will not apoligize for a $35000 prize table donated by about 20 different companies. Including a $3000 custom built 40 cal wide bode STI.

Tom

Everyone who knows the enormity of pulling off an Area match in so short a time appreciates you Tom. Thanks for putting it together so that we could have one to shoot. Ignore the hater-ade drinkers.

[GeneralChang]

I had a great time at the match. Tom and his crew did a fantastic job putting on the match. Stages were fun and a good mix of shooting challenges. The only complaint I have was beyond everyone's control and that was the extremely hot and humid weather. In my experience directing matches, there is always a mistake here or there that you just can't catch in time.

[4everB]

Congrats,Tom,Ken,CRO/RO's and staff,You did a fantastic job.Our squad never encountered rude RO's there all nice helpful and accommodating.

Also,my best experienced in this match and first time happened to me is to shoot 8 rds.on field of steele without earplug before stopping my self(open gun).

Edited May 25, 2010 by 4everB

[Al Capizzo]

I am not going to comment any more or get into a fight on this forum over things that happened or preceved to have happened. I have over 600 emails, and more than 250 hours into this match this year, not to mention that I have been gone from home since the 15th, and won't be home untill tommorrow night.

It has been common practice for proxys to be used at the prize table since I have been shooting. This is over 20 years. I will not apoligize for a $35000 prize table donated by about 20 different companies. Including a $3000 custom built 40 cal wide bode STI.

Tom

Who won that beautiful 6" gun? Probably Duane, he's so lucky

[Sean Gaines]

I had a great time at the match. Tom and his crew did a fantastic job putting on the match. Stages were fun and a good mix of shooting challenges. The only complaint I have was beyond everyone's control and that was the extremely hot and humid weather. In my experience directing matches, there is always a mistake here or there that you just can't catch in time.

+1

Like I have said in other posts before, 1/3 of the people signed up at the last minute, trying to game the weather. I wouldn't blame the staff, its not like they are getting paid to do this, this is a volunteer sport. I would blame some of the shooters who were ill prepared and signed up at the last minute. that throws a big wrench in the mix of things, not having the adequate awards, sceduling squads,people having to shoot 5 stages instead of 2, it throws the the majority off. the staff did the best with what they had, and has put in tireless hours getting the match prepared. Of course, you can't please everyone.

[prh]

This was my first major USPSA match to attend and I have lots of mixed reviews. Overall, I will say that it went well. But here are some issues that should have been addressed.

1) When I went to get my shooter package, I was handed a course book and stickers. When I asked about the shooter "bag" everyone else had received, I was told that they had run out? How do you run out when you've had shooters registered for several months? Then I was told that they "might" have some more at the end of the match. They did, at the prize table. The same bags and some of the stuff some, my squad received the Friday night was on the table Sunday. Hmmm....

2) We were assigned to shoot at 12:30 on Saturday (squad 17) and when we were ready, they informed us that they were shutting down to go to lunch and we would have to shoot this stage on Sunday, so we started an hour late (not due to our fault) at the next stage.

3) To the WONDERFUL R/O on the "Who Knows" stage. Here is a word of advice. When you tell a shooter to "make ready" and the shooter goes thru his routine, before you decide to push the start button, do not stop and tell me to move my foot over a little and expect me to NOT go thru my shooting routine again. Remember I AM the shooter, NOT you! Also, don't get all aggravated and throw your hands in the air when I do this also, it just makes you look more of an idiot!

4) Also, on that stage, when a competitor INSISTS he hit the target and request a calibration, DO NOT get mad at me because there are 3 bullet marks on said target because YOU forgot to paint it before I shot. If I request a calibration, pls honor my request and NOT argue with me where I shot (remember, I get the benefit of the doubt) and it's up to the RM at that time, NOT YOU...

5) Last on that same stage, one sees why it is imperative to follow the R/O when scoring targets. The last target was called Alpha / Charlie, when the second shot actually was in the perforated area (more on the Alpha side). I had to stop him and contest said target, which seemed like I was wasting his time.

Now I know I was not in contention for any of the top spots, but I am a solid "C" shooter and wanted to have fun, but I also wanted to be treated fair.

And last,

How can someone that is not there still receive prizes from the prize table? The reason why I ask are these:

* As we were waiting, the gentleman that was handling our table told us that he was going to pick his prize first and then we could go? Was he top in the ranking?

* Also, as we were in line waiting our turn at the prize table, whoever was overseeing this list would call out a name, and if that person was not there, someone that was overseeing another table would tell our table that he left, but to grab the called person name something? Strange....

Since this was your first major match I am assuming that you are not aware of the correct procedures in dealing with a

Range Officer whose performance is perceived to not be up to your standards, or who is not dealing with the competitor

in an appropriate manner. You need to bring the situation to the attention of the Range Master so that it may be addressed

at that time, not blast the RO on a public forum. This benefits no one and we loose a chance to provide training and guidance

to the RO.

Area 4 had a very high quality of staff with a large percentage of them being Nationals Staff with significant experience,

including about 20% of the certified Range Masters in the country. That doesn't mean that mistakes were not made and people

got tired, after all we are only human. From my perspective the staff did a great job under difficult conditions. We were

lucky to have them.

[Caspian_45]

Thank you to all the staff that made this area 4 match a success!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you to ALL the sponsors!!!!!!!!!! With out your support some people would have more to complaint about.

I need to thank STI, Black Bullets Int, and Drazy Metal Works for their continued suopport. Without them I would not be where I am today. I even go to meet the NEW marshall...er.... president of STI. Hope to see Tim Dillon at more of the matches. Thanks Dave, Don, Tim, Tony, and Tom.

To the vendors, THANK YOU. It's great to be able to grab something that you need right there at the match. Jimmy thanks so much for doing all the transfers.

Congrats to Carina!!!!!!!!!! WOW what a weekend girl. Stage win, class win, category win. It's early in the year, there's more matches to win.

Congrats to ALL the division class and category winners....way to many for me to remember.

And Thanks to my wife for all the extra work around the house while I went and played.

[Prov1x]

Thanks again to all of the staff that made this match happen. This was my first Major Match and I thought a few things could have been better but overall it was a great match. At my work I'm in charge of events and I know how hard it is to get things organized/set-up/prizes etc, so good job again guys!

Overall I shot pretty well, had a few mistakes but finished 2nd B Class in Production and 15th Overall Production, but I didn't get my plaque. How long will it take to receive the ones that are being mailed out?

Chad S...

[scorch]

Yup, Saturday and Sunday were pretty tough...I was scoring at everybody's fav...50 yard Fun...which means we hiked around 20,000 yards back and forth over the course of three days. I know my brain went to slide lock a couple of times due to the heat, but I rehydrated and soldiered on

FWIW, efficiently managing a stage at a big match can be a real pressure cooker, maybe that's something that only competitors who have worked as an RO at a big match can fully appreciate. My advice to anyone who runs into an RO who's having an off day or copping an attitude, is to always remain polite and respectful when pointing out problems: that's usually the quickest way to defuse any potential conflict and get, in return, the politeness and respect you are fully entitled to as a competitor. I know I'm always grateful when a competitor politely points out an edge hit or a scoring error: I want 'em to get every single point they've earned and you're bound to make few mistakes in working 200+ shooters through a stage over three days.

Curtis

Edited: 'cause after this match, I can only do math up to the number 12, apparently

Well said Curtis!

As far as My 2 cents. I don't believe you should have a Stage in a Match that Your Whole Match can Pivot on, Such as 50 yard standards. That said the Stages Were posted early enough to get to the Range and PRACTICE 50 yard shots. Huh Carina! Congrats, You Go girl! Also Congrats to the Neels! You go Boys! and Dave that sandwich thing made me throw up in my mouth

[XRe]

I don't believe you should have a Stage in a Match that Your Whole Match can Pivot on, Such as 50 yard standards.

So, you want to throw out the chrono, then (well, maybe you do, since the DTC never seems to have one... )... and also, any stage in a 300-ish round match that has more than, say, 10 rounds on it?

The fact is, any poor performance in any stage can have a very bad effect on your final match score. The bigger the stage in terms of round count, the bigger the impact. The standards were worth less than 10% of the match, whereas the chrono knocked 10+% off of several people's scores, and I know of at least one shooter who zero'ed two 32 round stages (each of which was worth 10-ish percent of the match, as well). And, as you said, Robert - it wasn't like it was "hey, surprise, you're shooting at 50 yards" when you showed up to the match. A fixed time standards might've been a little less painful for folks, but, either way, it is what it is... Learn to shoot at all distances you are likely to encounter - and based on the matches I've seen in the last 5 years, that could be from 1 yard away out to 75 yards with a handgun...

[Caspian_45]

I don't believe you should have a Stage in a Match that Your Whole Match can Pivot on, Such as 50 yard standards.

So, you want to throw out the chrono, then (well, maybe you do, since the DTC never seems to have one... )... and also, any stage in a 300-ish round match that has more than, say, 10 rounds on it?

The fact is, any poor performance in any stage can have a very bad effect on your final match score. The bigger the stage in terms of round count, the bigger the impact. The standards were worth less than 10% of the match, whereas the chrono knocked 10+% off of several people's scores, and I know of at least one shooter who zero'ed two 32 round stages (each of which was worth 10-ish percent of the match, as well). And, as you said, Robert - it wasn't like it was "hey, surprise, you're shooting at 50 yards" when you showed up to the match. A fixed time standards might've been a little less painful for folks, but, either way, it is what it is... Learn to shoot at all distances you are likely to encounter - and based on the matches I've seen in the last 5 years, that could be from 1 yard away out to 75 yards with a handgun...

Well put. You need to bring your entire bag of tricks to every match.

[RV man]

I really enjoyed this match and the stages. Every RO that ran me did an excellent job. The 50 yard was my second best stage even though I had a 5 second malfunction. I think most everyone was challenged by one of the stages that were presented and everyone had one that went very well. I really enjoyed the field of steel and love to hear bang, bang, bang, DING!!!

Bill

[lppd4]

To Tom Drazy and his staff thanks for your hard work. This is the 9th A4 championship I've shot. I enjoyed the match tremendously. I thought the stages were good, not a hose fest, I liked it. Good balance in the stages of difficult and not so difficult shots. Got to see alot of friends that I havent seen in awhile.

Thanks also goes out to Ken Hicks 9 years as Area director thats alot of dedication to our sport.

To those who want to be critical, step up and help make things better instead of sitting back and whining. Our local match director always worries if people will like his stages. My response to him is if they don't like the stages invite them to design,build and tear them down next month. Would you believe not one person has taken him up on the offer. Anyway if you don't like the way things are run volunteer to take some of the load and make your part as good as you can.

Edited May 25, 2010 by lppd4

[4everB]

To Tom Drazy and his staff thanks for your hard work. This is the 9th A4 championship I've shot. I enjoyed the match tremendously. I thought the stages were good, not a hose fest, I liked it. Good balance in the stages of difficult and not so difficult shots. Got to see alot of friends that I havent seen in awhile.

Thanks also goes out to Ken Hicks 9 years as Area director thats alot of dedication to our sport.

To those who want to be critical, step up and help make things better instead of sitting back and whining. Our local match director always worries if people will like his stages. My response to him is if they don't like the stages invite them to design,build and tear them down next month. Would you believe not one person has taken him up on the offer. Anyway if you don't like the way things are run volunteer to take some of the load and make your part as good as you can.

+2 Steve,If he will step up to be asst.MD for Tx Open next year, I welcome he's ideas and contribution to our sports.DVC

[Jammer1911]

I wanted to address Nickatnights childish comments. This is the fourth big match I have had the pleasure of working. It is hard work and we do our very best to insure all competitors have an enjoyable experience. Does this mean that things don't go wrong, hell no it doesn't mean that. Tom and the rest of the folks that put this match together did a good job, creative stages and made sure there was enough staff to cover all the bases.

To Tom, sorry you had such short notice to put this match together. You did awesome at the expense of your time away from family and work, the inability to prepare and shoot the match yourself. I guess it goes without saying you shouldn't complain unless your willing to walk a mile in the other persons shoes. Thank you for allowing me to assist with this match. I enjoy doing this and meeting all the competitors.

It was a very hot humid match and I am sure peoples patients were a bit worn at times but I think when all said and done the match was a great success and hot and humid beats snow and mud and cold any day of the week.

3) To the WONDERFUL R/O on the "Who Knows" stage. Here is a word of advice. When you tell a shooter to "make ready" and the shooter goes thru his routine, before you decide to push the start button, do not stop and tell me to move my foot over a little and expect me to NOT go thru my shooting routine again. Remember I AM the shooter, NOT you! Also, don't get all aggravated and throw your hands in the air when I do this also, it just makes you look more of an idiot!

The RO running the timer assisted you in remembering the start position. When you were asked are you ready and you were not in the correct position he instructed you as to the correct position. The RO has the responsibility to make sure you are in the correct position at the start. and you are responsible with knowing what the start position is. That is why the command is "Are you ready". As a new shooter you pobably should take an RO course and learn the rules and follow them.

4) Also, on that stage, when a competitor INSISTS he hit the target and request a calibration, DO NOT get mad at me because there are 3 bullet marks on said target because YOU forgot to paint it before I shot. If I request a calibration, pls honor my request and NOT argue with me where I shot (remember, I get the benefit of the doubt) and it's up to the RM at that time, NOT YOU...

When your popper did not fall the RO called for the RM to shoot it with the calibration gun. No one argued with you about that. and your request was honored. It was not the RO that forgot to paint it it was the squads responsibility to assist with targets and it was missed it happens. As for the three hits on the plate, well you did not engage that popper three times. Believe it or not with two ROs one running the shooter the other is watching for foot faults and target engagements. I was doing just that on the stage.

5) Last on that same stage, one sees why it is imperative to follow the R/O when scoring targets. The last target was called Alpha / Charlie, when the second shot actually was in the perforated area (more on the Alpha side). I had to stop him and contest said target, which seemed like I was wasting his time.

ROs are people to and unlike Jesus Christ himself we are fallible. If we make a mistake and it is brought to our attention we will correct our previous call. And you are right you need to follow and validate your scores for just that reason.

Now I know I was not in contention for any of the top spots, but I am a solid "C" shooter and wanted to have fun, but I also wanted to be treated fair.

Lastly you were treated more than fair and if you had a problem with the way the stage was run then there is a process for this as well, however you chose to be miserable until you got home and then complain in the forum. You shoulda Manned up and had the stones to talk to the RM or us Ros about how you were feeling. Agian review previous comment about fallibility.

[Team Amish 1]

Great match! Thanks to all involved.

Nice balance between upclose & personal and stages that required actual aiming.

RO's, as far as I could tell, were professional and pleasant to deal with.

The prize table seemed very nice and splitting it up into divisions really sped up the process.

I helped a little with the Space City prize table and know that a lot of work goes into it. Excellent job, THANKS to the responsible person(s)!!!

I also enjoyed those crisp LA spring mornings outdoors.

Got to shoot and spend a weekend with some great folks and had a thoroughly good time.

Roman

[4everB]

Great match! Thanks to all involved.

Nice balance between upclose & personal and stages that required actual aiming.

RO's, as far as I could tell, were professional and pleasant to deal with.

The prize table seemed very nice and splitting it up into divisions really sped up the process.

I helped a little with the Space City prize table and know that a lot of work goes into it. Excellent job, THANKS to the responsible person(s)!!!

I also enjoyed those crisp LA spring mornings outdoors.

Got to shoot and spend a weekend with some great folks and had a thoroughly good time.

Roman

+1 Roman and congratulations for placing ist in C class open,You deserved that STI frame.I forgot your ice cream.

[1911jerry]

A big thanks to all who assisted in running this match.

Thank you to those who gave up their personal time so I could come out and play.

Sometimes the ones who are appreciated the least, are the ones we need to appreciate the most.

Thanks once again to all who worked Area 4.

Jerry Snyder

[msshooter]

+1 on a great match! Thanks to all persons responsible for organizing this match, it is a very big undertaking. Thanks also to the MD, RM, RO's, stats, and sponsers. Thanks also to the Clarks and Miculeks who let us access their wonderful range. I enjoyed it very much and wish for more matches there b/c it's only 2.5 hrs from home.

Again thanks to all!!!!

[Flexmoney]

Enough overly critical banter (both ways).

This forum isn't a soapbox.

Constructive feedback is OK. (and no...I wouldn't be typing this if all we were hearing was constructive)

-Admin.

[John Heiter]

Sorry for the mega post but this one struck a nerve. First let me say thank you to Tom and all of the A4 match staff, volunteers, families, etc. I wasn't there and had nothing to do with putting on Area 4, but having done a couple big-ish sectional matches I hope I can offer some insight into a few of the questions from some of those who seem confused.

1. It's VERY easy to screw up awards and give the wrong plaque to the wrong person. There are some things in Winscore that help, but it really doesn't provide a listing of who should get what award. You have to go through the lists by hand looking for top finishers, Then you may have to manually make some adjustments like taking out the High Overall guy from the group because typically High Overalls don't get to double up. Ex. if High Overall is the top placing GM then at most matches the next GM down actually gets the "1st GM" plaque. There are other things that confuse this even more that I won't bore you with, but suffice it to say it is a complicated endeavor being done on the clock because you're rushing to get final results posted and everyone is anxious for awards to start so they can get home. Add to that the people doing it are usually totally wiped out and have had next to no sleep for two or three days straight, and thanks to all the divisions and special classes they have to correctly assign TONS of plaques/positions. Think about it:

High Overall

GM 1st-3rd

M 1st-3rd

A 1st-3rd

B 1st-3rd

C 1st-3rd

D 1st-3rd

U 1st-3rd

High Senior, Junior, Lady, Super Senior, Military

Do that times 6 divisions and you're talking about 162 placements (give or take a few depending on policies and attendance) that you have to get right in about 30 minutes time. If a MD or their staff get a couple of those wrong you need to understand and cut them some slack. If you politely tell them about it and they don't make it right later, go on and bash them then if that makes you feel better but give them a chance and think about who you're bashing and what they've been through FOR YOU first.

2. No match that I know of publishes the overall final scores before the awards are given out. Doing so would pretty much kill any suspense and make awards even more boring than they already are (can you tell I never win? Maybe they're really exciting for good shooters, I wouldn't know). Most try to publish them after awards but that's not always easy to do. The match staff want to attend the awards and afterward they want to take a few minutes to see their friends off and say some goodbyes. Not saying it's impossible to get them posted, just saying there's more to it than you may first think.

3. Late entries totally screw up match planning. I'll say it again, they TOTALLY screw it up. You have to pre-order shirts, plaques, match books, etc. The guys who donate the baggies that the shooter's packets go in ask how many shooter's are registered two weeks before the match so they'll know how many baggies to donate. Any prize table planning requires a guestimate at least of how many are coming and in what divisions. Ex. if I have entry fees early I can get better prizes for the tables by buying early from vendors who will offer 2 for 1's or other incentives. Squad sizes and assignments must be managed, additional score sheet stickers and chrono labels have to be printed, etc. and all this has to be done right at the last minute while the match staff have a million other things they should be focused on. Don't get me wrong, I've done it before myself so I'm to blame too, but I'm just telling you. The MD may be your best friend, but if you register at the last minute in his head he wants to kick you in the nards and if you didn't get the limited edition bullet key chain in your shooters bag...sorry. Blame those guys who signed up late but came through registration early.

4. Every match has the right to determine their own prize policy. Some require you to be present, some do not, etc. There are tons of ways of doing it and none of them are fair to EVERYONE. Ask someone on the match staff who knows what the policy will be before the start of the match if you're the sort of person it matters to. Be warned that not everyone on the staff will know and some will assume it's "like last time" but that may not be the case. I'd suggest asking the MD personally.

5. If something seems "unusual", please don't immediately assume the worst. A lot of things happen during a match, decisions are made rapidly, situations change, etc. If something seems wrong to you, politely ask the MD or match staff for an explanation. These are people who are giving up hundreds of hours of their time to organize the match, sacrificing their own shooting performances shooting through in a hurry so they can be there to work it for you. They'll stake down every stick of fault line before you show up and be there cleaning the bathrooms long after you're gone. I'm not saying bad things can't happen, but my experience with people who volunteer to work matches says they really aren't there to try to cheat you out of anything.

6. I 100% agree that if you felt the match could have been run better, please volunteer to help or send your well thought out suggestions for improvements to the MD.

My forum name is my real name which helps me avoid saying things I'm not willing to own up to. If I've offended anyone with this it was not my intention, but I've spent a considerable amount of time on the staff side of things so I'm hoping these answers may help avoid some confusion or avoid hurt feelings in the future.

[eddiegarcia]

Here is some links to some videos that was taken at the 2010 Area 4 Championship

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cameronscustomguns&aq=f

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=233862208142&ref=ts

[Tom D]

I have to order a few more match shirts for a few people. If any one else wants one let me know today or tommorrow and I will order them. The cost will be $25 and I will pay the shipping.

My email is tom@drazymetalworks.com

Thanks

Tom

[jasmap]

Here is some links to some videos that was taken at the 2010 Area 4 Championship

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cameronscustomguns&aq=f

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=233862208142&ref=ts

Good videos Eddie. Great job by you and Tony both!

[John Baier]

Congrats,Tom,Ken,CRO/RO's and staff,You did a fantastic job.Our squad never encountered rude RO's there all nice helpful and accommodating.

Also,my best experienced in this match and first time happened to me is to shoot 8 rds.on field of steele without earplug before stopping my self(open gun).

Sorry for not catching that Luckily it was only 3 shots ( but I'm sure it sounded like 8 though!)

After the second day of running shooters, I started double plugging myself

~John