9 major vs. 38 Super

[edwin garcia]

Every person needs to use what they feel most comfortable with....and having confidence in your equipment is an empowering thing.

There is no ..(my dogs better than your dog) thing here, just honest and differing opinions.

Jim

I couldn't agree more. Thanks for saying that, jim

[Kingman]

Comfort level is a big thing. I know since I went back to my 9mm 5" gun my scores keep going up.

[turbocomp38s]

Both shot major 9 and 38 super. I like them both. Rest assured, I followed my smith's recommendations faithfully on the 9 major and have been shooting it since last july '07 with no problems at all. I totally agree that you have to monitor, check,and perform some fine tuning when needed it and I do this on a regular basis regardless whether it is a local or major match. May sound meticulous but it works for me 100 percdent.

Kingman,

You are right about that. I went back to a 5 inch 9 mm and finally founded the right one that suited me.

[jtipping]

I've shot 9mm Major and 38 SC and was plagued by both platforms. When I go back to Open I am seriously considering using .40 or I may try the Tanfogio in 38 SC. Haven't decided yet - but out of all of the 2011 open guns that I've seen, there is maybe only 2 or 3 that I have never seen jam.

That's an interesting thought pattern. Do you think that a 2011 open gun built in .40 will be inherently more reliable than a 9 or 38? Or that a tanfo is inherently more reliable than a 2011? Not arguing or saying this is wrong, but personally i feel that the quality of the individual gun has a LOT more to do with it than the calibre, or perhaps even brand. Obviously tanfo's can run fine, Eric manages But i know a shooter with a tanfo open gun that has the odd jam. I know people with 2011's that jam, ive seen glocks malfunction, CZ SP-01's, S&W M&P's and everything in between. I've also seen the same types of guns run 100%. Hell, my open gun is 13 years old, i bought it used a year ago, still has the original barrel, built on a para frame with a caspian slide, and it is a 38 super. I can throw supers or supercomps at it and it will feed both. The last jam i can remember was about 6 months ago, and was due to someone else's reloads. It was built well, i clean it and feed it good ammo, and it works 99.9999%. I know fellow shooters with newer 2011 based guns that run like clockwork too.

Edited October 27, 2007 by jtipping

[Focus]

Match fee $17, Gas to go to a match $35, Food for the day $15, Time spent loading and prepping for the match 2 hours? Time spent in practice 3 hours a week? Pay scale at work $22 an hour.

Total cost for the match

$177

+ bullets primers and pouder

Brass cost on a 150 round 38 super lost brass match $15

Brass cost on a 150 round 9mm lost brass match $6

I think you should have done the math….

Edited November 13, 2007 by Focus

[ogiebb]

Brass is the only issue for me...9mm brass is almost free any indoor range

[al503]

I think you should have done the math….

Wow. How did you know how far he has to drive, how long it takes him to reload, what he buys for lunch.....

[Alan Meek]

What we have learned in tht 9mm vs 38Super vs .45 ACP for USPSA.

In the beginning the .45 ACP was the caliber of choice that everyone had to have to be competitive. Then some enterprising competitors started experimenting with the 38 Super and discovered that it could be loaded to major, initially using heavy bullets and then the bullets started getting lighter and lighter and lighter. Until the 38 Super was the caliber of choice.

Now a few years ago competitors started experimenting using the 9x19 and were able to make major pf. Now in my opinion <insert content not fit for this forum> and then we ended up with a ban on 9x19 Major if loaded to 9x19 specs. Now you could load it >1.250 and it was legal, but you had to use a 1911 style gun and not a CZ/TZ/P9 or glock.

Then these competitors started experiment with 9x21 and all was well again in the competitve arena.

fast forward to 2003, The USPSA BOD removed the restriction of loading the 9x19 to major using 9x19 specs.

What we have learned from all of this is if we as competitors are allowed to experiment we can push designs up to and past their known limits. Then there have been other companies that have used our R&D information and developed commercial products. I feel this is only not true in the ammo industry but other industries products we use on a regular basis.

Alan

[the duck of death]

After all the dust settled this is what I learned:

It's extremely easy to achieve a reliable 9 major w/a Glock 34 using MG 121IFP and HS-6 or Silhouette powder. So easy in fact that I'm building another one.

The new one will use a Fast Fire red dot rather than a Docter like old one has.

[JThompson]

I picked up about 3k worth of once fired 9 at the range tonight.

Edited November 14, 2007 by JThompson

[SLM]

I picked up about 3k worth of once fired 9 at the range tonight.

I hate people like you! Joking, joking The only thing to pick up at my local indoor range is that .40 stuff I have no use for. 9mm is FEW and FAR between! The last time I was there I got more .45acp than I did 9mm.

I shoot an indoor match sometimes and at least there I can scrounge some 9's.

[JThompson]

I picked up about 3k worth of once fired 9 at the range tonight.

I hate people like you! Joking, joking The only thing to pick up at my local indoor range is that .40 stuff I have no use for. 9mm is FEW and FAR between! The last time I was there I got more .45acp than I did 9mm.

I shoot an indoor match sometimes and at least there I can scrounge some 9's.

Well... maybe we could swap some out... most of the time ours is cleaned of 40, but 9s are pretty easy to come by. Why don't you get a couple k of once 40 and I'll send you a couple k of once 9? I'm not shooting 40 right now, but plan to some time. Send me a PM if ya like and we can figure it out.

[shooterbenedetto]

Guys, Read the latest Uspsa magazine. there's an article about JV Dynamics. JoJo Vidanez is the only TOP GM that runs his gun on 9mm because he knows how to build it. I know he built my first 9mm and the second one was just tested at the AREA 2 match. My gun is Flawless...and I get to shoot more because brass is cheap. WORK HARDER ON SHOOTING not equiptment. Just get a gun that works, do maintenance every 3 months and leave it alone.

[SV_shooter]

After spending what I did on a Brazos 5" gun, buying new .38 dies, NEW Starline brass, N-105 and the wrong(147g.) bullets, which I will have to replace w 115's.

I calculated the cost of the first case of ammo to be approximately $260! however 9x19 would be somewhere in the $160 range w new brass!!! thats an extra C-note for beers after a match

imagine how much beer I can buy w free range brass???

I have been watching the increase of major 9's at the matches I attended the last year. advancements in followers and "shims", as well as specialty comps for 9x19, can really make em run right. Everyone is makin one except 1 of the super smiths that I can think of.. . but what do I know? I only fired a few open guns before making my purchase. I am totally green to open class.

I agree that confidence in your gear will definately help you mentally, but I think a few smiths out there have perfected the 9 major gun, where I am seriously considering having jojo build me a 9 top end. I think it will pay for itself the first 5000 rds. and save me a lot of money on brass thereafter. In the mean time If you are selling any once fired/new .38 brass, or a 9x19 top end, let me know!

[benny hill]

I would shoot 38super for one reason, it holds a lot more powder so the comp will work a lot better so as to shoot FLATER. The faster you can shoot w/o dot movement, the better chance to win. Check out how many of the top 16 at the nat's shot 9mm verses 38.

[XRe]

I calculated the cost of the first case of ammo to be approximately $260! however 9x19 would be somewhere in the $160 range w new brass!!!

You might want to recheck those calculations - or compare apples to apples. If you're loading new ammo for 9x19, to get a $100 difference between the two sets of ammo, you'd have to be buying brand new 9x19 brass for $20 (new SuperComp is currently $122/K from Angus if buying 1K at a time). Somehow, I suspect you're talking about buying a case of factory 9mm for $160, which is not going to make major, and is not a fair comparison (and, you don't want to run FMJs in that gun!!!). You can buy a case of WWB .38 Super 130gr FMJ for around the same price as 9x19, and get brand new .38 Super brass... Brand new 9mm brass runs $110 from Starline - cheaper than I could easily find Rem or Win brass from Midway. Brand new brass cost is basically the same between the two.

As has been stated earlier in the thread, most folks buy so-called "once fired" 9mm brass (I say "so-called" because some of it definitely is once fired, some of it is questionable, depending on who you get it from), shoot it 1-5 times, and leave it on the range. Most of us that shoot Super or SuperComp buy the brass new, pick it up off the range, and load it a bunch of times (10-12 seems to be typical for those of us that are diligent about picking it up - I lose mine before it cracks, and occasionally wear out primer pockets). Those are completely different usage patterns. Its unclear how long brand new 9mm brass lasts in 9 Major, cause most folks don't do it that way, but it seems to be 5-6 loadings before things go weird in some way (someone with experience feel free to correct me...)??

In the end, following typical usage patterns, and accounting for the fairly recent increase in price of used 9mm brass, brass costs are pretty close to one another - and, frankly, are a relatively small fraction of the overall cost of shooting any gun in this sport (though .45 brass does tend to be pretty spendy, it lasts forever if you pick it up).

In short, you're fine with what you've got. Mark your brass, pick it up, use it until it cracks. Your cost per load on brass will be amortized down to around a $.01-.015 by the time you're done with it...

[mike cyrwus]

sounds to me that shooting open is a little more arrow and a little less Indian than other divisions.

[Alan Meek]

Same indian, just launches the arrow slightly different

[basman]

3 reasons to choose 9 major (at least for me)

1. don't spend all match looking for brass

2. See #1

3. See #1

[XRe]

1. don't spend all match looking for brass

2. See #1

3. See #1

If you're spending all match at it, you're not trying very hard... I manage to RO about half my squad, typically, run the clipboard or tape targets for most of the other half, and I still manage to come away with the vast majority of my brass

[G-ManBart]

sounds to me that shooting open is a little more arrow and a little less Indian than other divisions.

Not if you're trying to be competitive.

Open guns aren't for everyone for a number of reasons. They're loud, give you a pretty good pop in the hand, blast your face with pressure and you have to follow the dot while all of that is going on. When I shoot my Limited gun and Open gun back to back I'm always struck by how soft and mild the Limited gun is in comparison.

I honestly think that many Open shooters would do better to have a 6" gun built with no comp, but keep the red dot. If you're shooting .4-.5 splits the comp is just making noise and pressure that can distract you.

Ooops...thread drift off.

[Chris iliff]

It's all in the individual. I seldom pick up brass, because to me I would rather be trying to figure the stage. I usually score/tape and I'm lucky to get 40%-50% of my 38 super back at a match. I go to shoot and learn and I just do it better when I'm not squinting for brass... but, that's me. Knowing yourself is the important thing. I recently switched to 9mm, don't expect any problems, but that's not saying there won't be any. I will deal with it one problem at a time. Took me half a summer to work all the bugs out of my Super, that was 3 years ago, not one hiccup since. In the end 9mm is cheaper, cheaper means more rounds downrange, that means more practice, higher hf's, higher classification.

[adiksaputok]

i used to shoot 38super but the price of the brass is a big factor for me thats why i switched to 9major. 38 super is much flat shooting than 9major but not too much (i'll take it) but i dont have to worry about my brass and can concentrate on the game, (less one worry for me) :rolleyes: but i still sucked on the game. enjoy shooting and be safe +1 for 9major.

[Lexor40cal]

I purchased a used Millenium Custom in 9mm which I know ran 100% reliably with it's former owner, unfortunatly I could not get the mag's that were used with this gun so had to borrow and build mags to get started. I can concur with the general thread, that all feed/malfunctions with 9mm major are created by magazine problems, SV tubes with 38 followers & without spacers run fine, and tuned STI mags with spacers work fine.

I built an STI big stick with spacer & 9mm Grams follwer and it worked 90% of the time, but contiually produced overfeed problems & hindered ejection of spent brass creating feed problems.

As soon as I use magazines that have been built especially for use in 9mm major all problems dissappear. I can load both mags and run them back to back and tuned/build mags will function flawlessly, all other will make it choke.

I have recently purchased a set of STI's tuned by H Smith (which I am expecting delivery of any day now) and I have sent him the STI big stick I built myself, and I will let you all know just how reliability problems balance out after I have run them for a while.

Good shooting to all, and happy thanksgiving.............

i used to shoot 38super but the price of the brass is a big factor for me thats why i switched to 9major. 38 super is much flat shooting than 9major but not too much (i'll take it) but i dont have to worry about my brass and can concentrate on the game, (less one worry for me) :rolleyes: but i still sucked on the game. enjoy shooting and be safe +1 for 9major.

[dfwmiket]

I'm still a noob when it comes to shooting open, but I have shot quite a few different guns in my quest for the 'right' one, and I didn't care for the recoil impulse of the 9 major as much as 38 super, which was one of the factors in my decision.

-Mike