New IDPA rulebook (2024)

[IHAVEGAS]

20 minutes ago, Jim Watson said:

I am seeing some of that, too.  My Protege went to a Women Only match.  And The Other Guys do it right up to the Nationals.

I think it is an effect of the attempt to provide a Division for everything.

 

I don't disagree but I think it might also be a recognition that the course design appropriate for the rifles with optics, for example, is not the best course design for BUG and CCP. 

 

Edit: On rereading I think we are both saying the same thing, a division for everything = a lot of compromises in course design for something(s). 

Edited December 21, 2023 by IHAVEGAS

[ShooterQ]

Does anyone foresee 15-round mag cap for CO and ESP in the future?

 

I'm just getting back into the sport and part of what I got excited about was the SSP mag cap set at 15 now. For whatever reason, I erroneously assumed ESP/CO would allow the same cap too, with the division aimed more at modified frames and SAO guns, only one step up from SSP in format. It seems a little backward from how I've structured the divisions in my mind.

 

In any case, I feel a little stuck between shooting SSP with ammo distribution closer to how I'd really carry, but using the SSP/Production gun that I only have for competition vs. shooting CO/ESP with the 3rd party trigger, removed finger grooves, etc. that I want on my real carry gun. Still trying to decide how to spec my pistols out, might just stick to CO builds and treat the 10-round limit like an opportunity to have more reloads.

[ddc]

57 minutes ago, ShooterQ said:

Does anyone foresee 15-round mag cap for CO and ESP in the future?

 

I'm just getting back into the sport and part of what I got excited about was the SSP mag cap set at 15 now. For whatever reason, I erroneously assumed ESP/CO would allow the same cap too, with the division aimed more at modified frames and SAO guns, only one step up from SSP in format. It seems a little backward from how I've structured the divisions in my mind.

 

In any case, I feel a little stuck between shooting SSP with ammo distribution closer to how I'd really carry, but using the SSP/Production gun that I only have for competition vs. shooting CO/ESP with the 3rd party trigger, removed finger grooves, etc. that I want on my real carry gun. Still trying to decide how to spec my pistols out, might just stick to CO builds and treat the 10-round limit like an opportunity to have more reloads.

 

I've heard that the argument for keeping ESP/CO at 10 (probably ESP in particular) was that would not handicap 9mm 1911's with their single stack mags that can only hold 10 rounds. 

You raise the ESP limit to 15 and all those 1911s become instantly obsolete.

 

That raises a question in my mind. What if they left ESP at 10 but allowed CO to go to 15? I'm going to guess the vast majority of CO guns are double stacks and there are few if any 1911 CO guns floating around out there. I may be wrong about that last part...

 

[ShooterQ]

Quote

You raise the ESP limit to 15 and all those 1911s become instantly obsolete.

 

Ah yeah, that does ring a bell and suddenly I remember an older gentlemen in my hometown echoing, "... just to keep the 1911 relevant." while I was pasting targets.

 

Quote

That raises a question in my mind. What if they left ESP at 10 but allowed CO to go to 15? I'm going to guess the vast majority of CO guns are double stacks and there are few if any 1911 CO guns floating around out there.

 

If the goal is to keep 1911s in the game, I wonder if the simpler idea would be to fold them into SSP, reinstalling the 10-round cap. Give ESP the 15-round cap. Then separate it into SSP-Irons, SSP-Optics, ESP-Irons, ESP-Optics. Do away with CDP, putting filtering all non-1911 .45s into the above.

[Jim Watson]

8 hours ago, ddc said:

I've heard that the argument for keeping ESP/CO at 10 (probably ESP in particular) was that would not handicap 9mm 1911's with their single stack mags that can only hold 10 rounds. 

You raise the ESP limit to 15 and all those 1911s become instantly obsolete.

 

I figure that is their rationale, but when SSP went to 15 I shot there for a while.  I saw that MDs were setting up more 17-18 shot stages so as to force a reload.  It became very common to go most of a match firing 16 shots and reloading to hit the last target.  

Yawn.  

I went back to ESP where I reload halfway through one of those long stages.   

[deerslayer]

IDPA is run by people who make 10 round ESP guns.  CO is ESP with a dot.  I don’t think ESP or CO will go to 15 rounds any time soon.  
 

Also, unlike USPSA, 15 rounds vs. 10 rounds is rarely an advantage in IDPA.  It’s great on a 14 round stage, but ammo management is more difficult when the reload is later in the stage.  Keeping up with what is left in the mag/extra shots is easier with four or five targets than with seven or eight.  

Edited December 28, 2023 by deerslayer

[Zincwarrior]

31 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

Also, unlike USPSA, 15 rounds vs. 10 rounds is rarely an advantage in IDPA.  It’s great on a 14 round stage, but ammo management is more difficult when the reload is later in the stage.  Keeping up with what is left in the mag/extra shots is easier with four or five targets than with seven or eight.

This is an excellent point. When I was running SSP, the change was cool for about one match, then everyone reset slightly to  insure I was always doing a reload regardless.  Further with the 18 round limitation, most matches were already at 17 or 18 rounds.  Its really no different. 

[Joe4d]

23 minutes ago, Zincwarrior said:

This is an excellent point. When I was running SSP, the change was cool for about one match, then everyone reset slightly to  insure I was always doing a reload regardless.  Further with the 18 round limitation, most matches were already at 17 or 18 rounds.  Its really no different. 

I remember a time when almost all IDPA stages including at nationals were 12 rounds..  Every division had to reload once and only once.  Also seems to have been alot of start with only 6 in gun stages, to force reloads in a stage, but keep the round count and size of stage down..
90% of my IDPA was indoor though,, so range size may have been an issue and it not be like that every where.

[RangerTrace]

No need for 15 rounds as long as they penalize us for dropping mags with rounds in them.

[GrumpyOne]

53 minutes ago, RangerTrace said:

No need for 15 rounds as long as they penalize us for dropping mags with rounds in them.

[IHAVEGAS]

7 hours ago, deerslayer said:

 

Also, unlike USPSA, 15 rounds vs. 10 rounds is rarely an advantage in IDPA.

 

At the world match this year Nils did three tactical reloads the first day he shot on his way to beating all of the other iron sight guns. I think that is where ssp will shine, giving you the freedom to reload off the clock anytime after the first two shots have been fired. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by IHAVEGAS

[racknrider]

With most stages in my area being 17-18 rounds, the 15 round capacity is pointless in ESP or CO. Personal opinion is SSP was increased to 15 to attract new shooters or help the low level shooters that had to go to the 3rd mag. I tried SSP for a few matches, but the reload point takes some getting used to 

[NoahBeretta]

I shot my first 5 or so IDPA matches in ESP, then 1 in October in SSP. The 10 round mags had a much more natural stage flow.

[deerslayer]

17 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

At the world match this year Nils did three tactical reloads the first day he shot on his way to beating all of the other iron sight guns. I think that is where ssp will shine, giving you the freedom to reload off the clock anytime after the first two shots have been fired. 

 

 

 

 

Yeah if you have a good tac load in your tool box, SSP definitely opens up some options.  

[IHAVEGAS]

15 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

Yeah if you have a good tac load in your tool box, SSP definitely opens up some options.  

 

I think so too. To me it is an often overlooked opportunity even on rare occasions in the 10 round divisions. 

 

I'd like to see things left as they are, this guy with 15- that guy with 6- that other guy with 10 and then the rifle guy with something like 314 rounds and a mag that drags the ground makes the matches more interesting. 

[deerslayer]

1 hour ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

I think so too. To me it is an often overlooked opportunity even on rare occasions in the 10 round divisions. 

 

I'd like to see things left as they are, this guy with 15- that guy with 6- that other guy with 10 and then the rifle guy with something like 314 rounds and a mag that drags the ground makes the matches more interesting. 

Agreed - that’s one reason I would like to see 15 in USPSA CO.  Different mag capacities = different stage plans = more interesting.  
 

Tac loads nearly disappeared when IDPA dropped the round dumping nonsense and especially later when they changed to allowing dumping a mag with one in the chamber, but it is still occasionally useful, even with a 10 round gun.  

Edited December 29, 2023 by deerslayer

[IHAVEGAS]

12 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

Tac loads nearly disappeared when IDPA dropped the round dumping nonsense and especially later when they changed to allowing dumping a mag with one in the chamber,

 

I wish they would stop being stubborn. 

First - you can't dump rounds (legally) because dumping rounds would get you killed in a real gun fight.

Now - you must dump rounds to get your best score because not dumping rounds will get you killed in a real gun fight. 

 

They control how many rounds you start out with, that should be enough to make the conservation of ammo crowd happy. The 'can't reload when you want to' rules just makes the game a little bit less fun and creates another duty/distraction for the safety officers and wastes valuable ammo. 

 

Gripe done. 

[deerslayer]

56 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

I wish they would stop being stubborn. 

First - you can't dump rounds (legally) because dumping rounds would get you killed in a real gun fight.

Now - you must dump rounds to get your best score because not dumping rounds will get you killed in a real gun fight. 

 

They control how many rounds you start out with, that should be enough to make the conservation of ammo crowd happy. The 'can't reload when you want to' rules just makes the game a little bit less fun and creates another duty/distraction for the safety officers and wastes valuable ammo. 

 

Gripe done. 

AMEN

[telligentgunner]

I heard rumblings that IDPA is requiring PCC shooters to wear concealment if they intend to do a reload during a stage. Has anyone else heard this? 

 

There is nothing about this at all in the current rule book on the IDPA website.  Appendix B remains the same since the beginning of 2023. 

 

 

Edited March 21 by telligentgunner

[IHAVEGAS]

16 minutes ago, telligentgunner said:

I heard that IDPA is requiring PCC shooters to wear concealment if they intend to do a reload during a stage. Has anyone else heard this? 

 

There is nothing about this at all in the current rule book on the IDPA website.  Appendix B remains the same since the beginning of 2023. 

 

 

 

There is nothing about concealment for the pcc folks yet but they do have a tiger team working on specifics for their attire. 

 

[matteekay]

4 hours ago, telligentgunner said:

I heard rumblings that IDPA is requiring PCC shooters to wear concealment if they intend to do a reload during a stage. Has anyone else heard this? 

 

There is nothing about this at all in the current rule book on the IDPA website.  Appendix B remains the same since the beginning of 2023. 

 

 

 

Wouldn't surprise me, but just a rumor until confirmed/printed.

[deerslayer]

5 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

There is nothing about concealment for the pcc folks yet but they do have a tiger team working on specifics for their attire. 

 

 

[iboomer]

On 3/21/2024 at 4:26 PM, telligentgunner said:

I heard rumblings that IDPA is requiring PCC shooters to wear concealment if they intend to do a reload during a stage. Has anyone else heard this? 

 

There is nothing about this at all in the current rule book on the IDPA website.  Appendix B remains the same since the beginning of 2023. 

 

 

I've heard nothing regarding this.

 

FWIW, if you let someone shoot a rifle at a pistol match, why would conceal spare magazines be an issue?

[telligentgunner]

22 minutes ago, iboomer said:

FWIW, if you let someone shoot a rifle at a pistol match, why would conceal spare magazines be an issue?

 

Probably because pistol shooters complain about rifle shooter's times.

[RePete]

On 12/29/2023 at 12:10 PM, IHAVEGAS said:

 

I wish they would stop being stubborn. 

First - you can't dump rounds (legally) because dumping rounds would get you killed in a real gun fight.

Now - you must dump rounds to get your best score because not dumping rounds will get you killed in a real gun fight. 

 

They control how many rounds you start out with, that should be enough to make the conservation of ammo crowd happy. The 'can't reload when you want to' rules just makes the game a little bit less fun and creates another duty/distraction for the safety officers and wastes valuable ammo. 

 

Gripe done. 

 

They still couldn't organise a pi$$ up in a brewery.  They need to pay a professional writer for the rulebook.