New IDPA rulebook (2024)

[matteekay]

Time is a flat circle.

 

I won't have time to parse it for a while. Please post if you find any good summaries of changes.

[DocMedic]

Looks like they cleaned up the Compensator / ported barrel rule for ESP/CO

 

A.2.3 ESP Permitted Modifications

A.2.3.2 Compensated and ported barrels that are incorporated into the firearm.

[Zincwarrior]

My bad: there is an outline:

https://www.idpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/2024-Rulebook-changes.pdf

Quote

2024 IDPA Rulebook Changes/Additions 8.5.1.6 Outside the waist holsters must carry the firearm in a neutral (vertical) or muzzle rear cant and may not protrude more than 3" (7.62cm) out from the shooter's body as measured from the front of the holster. The rear or vertical cant angle be no more than 15 degrees. 8.5.1.8 Must be constructed of normal thickness common holster-making materials (leather, Kydex, plastic, nylon, etc.) that completely encase the firearm on a minimum of 3 sides and remain open after the gun is drawn to allow for one-handed holstering without manually opening the holster to seat the gun. No collapsible holsters. 10.1 An appeal can be made regarding a stage design before the competitors complete a COF. A Stage appeal may be made at 3 points: 1. Prior to shooting the stage based on stage rule legalities 2. Immediately after shooting stage (using standard time frames) 3. Immediately after the protestor notices a cardinal change in the stage, e.g. target placement, briefing changes. (using standard time frames) Disqualification for a safety rule witnessed by two or more safety officers assigned to a stage may not be appealed unless a rule is being incorrectly applied. 10.2.1 Shooters must verbally appeal a rule issue to the Chief Safety Officer assigned to the stage in question on which the dispute arose, adhering to all aspects of the Shooters Code of Conduct (3.11) either before or immediately after attempting to shoot the CoF. 10.10.2.2 If the shooter and the CSO still disagree, the shooter may verbally appeal the specific rule issue to the Match Director adhering to all aspects of the Shooter Code of Conduct within 15 minutes of receiving the decision from the CSO (or the time recorded for the shooters score digitally) 10.2.3 (no changes) 10.2.4 The shooter submits the written appeal using the IDPA match protest form within 30 minutes of notifying the MD of their protest. The preparation of the document rests solely on the shooter and not a surrogate. Appeals received past this time limit will not be considered and the protest fee shall be returned to the shooter. 10.2.4.1 to 10.2.4.7 no changes. 10.3.1 Upon receipt of the formal written appeal and the fee of $100, the Match Director will deliver the package to the Area Coordinator of the region (or their delegate if they are not present. At Tier 5 match this is a Regional AC Lead.) who shall lead the arbitration team. 10.3.2 No change 10.3.3 The Arbitration team lead will select 2 additional certified Safety Officers (or CSOs) to comprise the Team. 10.3.3.1 - 10.3.3.3 no changes 10.3.4.3 The team will deliberate in an area of the range free of outside disturbances by individuals influencing or recording the proceedings for a period of up to one hour. (Disturbing deliberations may be considered Unsportsmanlike Conduct.) The decision/s will be presented to the MD and the shooter filing the appeal. 10.3.4.4 - 10.3.4.5 no changes 10.3.4.5 If the team does not support or sustain the appeal, the MD decision stands and the Team Lead will forward the appeal forms and fee to IDPA Headquarters.

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Zincwarrior

[matteekay]

5 hours ago, DocMedic said:

Looks like they cleaned up the Compensator / ported barrel rule for ESP/CO

 

A.2.3 ESP Permitted Modifications

A.2.3.2 Compensated and ported barrels that are incorporated into the firearm.

 

That's been the same since summer. The equipment appendices aren't actually updated, only the main rulebook.

[matteekay]

5 hours ago, Zincwarrior said:

My bad: there is an outline:

https://www.idpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/2024-Rulebook-changes.pdf

 

 

Thanks! Looks like it's only changes to the holster requirements and arbitration process.

 

I'm not sure how this qualifies for "IDPA HQ has listened to feedback from members, match directors, and match volunteers", but sure, whatever. Revolver still isn't a division...

 

 

[RJH]

43 minutes ago, matteekay said:

 

Revolver still isn't a division...

 

 

 

 

So you're saying IDPA beat USPSA in allowing sao guns into carryops/limited ops and getting rid of revolver? USPSA needs to step up their game

Edited December 19, 2023 by RJH

[perttime]

5 hours ago, RJH said:

... and getting rid of revolver? USPSA needs to step up their game

 

[Jim Watson]

Reportedly the holster wording was changed after some subjective interpretations of the pious platitude "suitable for all day carry."

[matteekay]

10 hours ago, RJH said:

 

 

So you're saying IDPA beat USPSA in allowing sao guns into carryops/limited ops and getting rid of revolver? USPSA needs to step up their game

 

Strictly speaking... yes.

 

5 hours ago, perttime said:

 

 

You left out the part where it's become a "Specialty Division" that's not required at Tier 2+ matches. BUG and PCC, too.

 

Maybe it'll be a full division once Wilson Combat makes a revolver...

[Racinready300ex]

I measured my holster this morning for my Canik Rival. It's currently on my USPSA rig I just switch it to a different hanger for IDPA until I get a 2nd holster. Pointing that out as I haven't yet measured my IDPA rig.

 

Anyway the holster body itself measures 2-1/8" it's noting fancy, just a basic RHT holster. In fact at one point I headed it up and "adjusted" it a bit to make the gun sit closer to the body. Tweaking where the hanger attached. Any, I've got about 7/8" to play with for my hanger.

 

Measuring from my body, my CO legal USPSA rig measures 4". Boss hanger with spacers. But the double belt is adding some to that number. 

 

I'm shooting a major in 3 weeks I guess I need to get this sorted out soon. Anyone measured their rigs yet?

[RangerTrace]

I think the Springer Precision hanger might be IDPA legal "again".  Will measure it this weekend......

[IHAVEGAS]

1 hour ago, Jim Watson said:

Reportedly the holster wording was changed after some subjective interpretations of the pious platitude "suitable for all day carry."

A guy had what most would consider a race rig set up that you would not wear if concealment was a consideration , 1” spacer between holster and belt attachment to bring the gun out where it feels best, at a level three match in November. He was told it was not legal by match officials and then got that overturned on appeal. 
 

I think the organization realized that the rule as written was unenforceable. Could just be coincidence and the need for clarity might have already been recognized, but I have been wondering how and when they would address that issue. 
 

The concealment concept has gotten pretty weird in general since IDPA is now also a rifle sport. 

[matteekay]

6 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

A guy had what most would consider a race rig set up that you would not wear if concealment was a consideration , 1” spacer between holster and belt attachment to bring the gun out where it feels best, at a level three match in November. He was told it was not legal by match officials and then got that overturned on appeal. 
 

I think the organization realized that the rule as written was unenforceable. Could just be coincidence and the need for clarity might have already been recognized, but I have been wondering how and when they would address that issue. 
 

The concealment concept has gotten pretty weird in general since IDPA is now also a rifle sport. 

 

Thanks for the context!

 

These are the downsides of having such a subjective rulebook. Like someone who's smarter than me pointed out, a rulebook is either a list of what I can do (and everything else is forbidden) or what I can't do (and all other reasonable actions are allowed). "Use your best judgement" isn't a rule - it's pretty generic life advice.

[Racinready300ex]

6 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

A guy had what most would consider a race rig set up that you would not wear if concealment was a consideration , 1” spacer between holster and belt attachment to bring the gun out where it feels best, at a level three match in November. He was told it was not legal by match officials and then got that overturned on appeal. 
 

I think the organization realized that the rule as written was unenforceable. Could just be coincidence and the need for clarity might have already been recognized, but I have been wondering how and when they would address that issue. 
 

The concealment concept has gotten pretty weird in general since IDPA is now also a rifle sport. 

 

I think it was being enforced inconsistently too. I've talked to people in other areas that their AC allowed Boss hangers with spacers while our AC does not. So it depended where you shot how this rule applied. It sounds like at nationals guys coming from areas it was allowed were surprised at equipment check. 

 

This rule will be more enforceable. 

[bdpaz]

52 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I think it was being enforced inconsistently too. I've talked to people in other areas that their AC allowed Boss hangers with spacers while our AC does not. So it depended where you shot how this rule applied. It sounds like at nationals guys coming from areas it was allowed were surprised at equipment check. 

 

This rule will be more enforceable. 

The specific new rule may be more enforceable on its own but there is still plenty of room for regional judgement calls:

 

8.1 Firearms – General

All equipment used in Defensive Pistol divisions at matches must meet the following simple guidelines:

Equipment must be practical for self-defense rather than using ‘competition only’ or ‘race gear’.

It must be suitable for all-day continuous wear and concealed. If you can’t carry it completely concealed in public to defend yourself, you can't shoot or use it in a Defensive Pistol division for competition. Another criterion used to assess gear will be to ask how this would appear to John Q. Public in a local public space with others in regions where open carry is not permitted. Reference: IDPA Official Rulebook 10-26-96

 

Gear permitted for Defensive Pistol competition must be specifically designed for everyday defensive carry and must be completely concealed. This includes firearm accessories, aftermarket parts, holsters, ammunition carriers, and garments that are not otherwise specified in the current rulebook.

 

Regional Coordinators in consultation with HQ will review and decide which equipment best meet IDPA criteria to assist Area Coordinators and Match Directors as needed. This will be determined by a combination of reviewing manufacturer websites, industry surveys, and visiting public venues to determine whether a product is compatible with the principles of the sport. Having the word competition in the name will not itself be reason alone to exclude a piece of equipment.  The intent of this guideline is to be inclusive and open to new types of gear provided it is oriented towards the concealed carry markets.

 

and

 

8.5 Holsters

8.5.1.1 Must be suitable for all day concealed carry or duty style holsters and worn on each stage regardless of the start position.

 

Based on those rules I would say that a 1" spacer should not be allowed even if the outside of the holster is within the new 3" limit.

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by bdpaz
line spacing

[IHAVEGAS]

1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I think it was being enforced inconsistently too.

 

I don't know how they could have imagined that it would not be when they wrote the rule, things like "suitable for all-day continuous wear" seem to be completely subjective. Sometimes it seems like they don't even try. 

26 minutes ago, bdpaz said:

 

Based on those rules I would say that a 1" spacer should not be allowed even if the outside of the holster is within the new 3" limit.

 

 

I was very surprised that it was. Pictures were sent to whoever decides this stuff via arbitration, possibly somebody has a copy. 

[ddc]

6 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

Sometimes it seems like they don't even try. 

 

 

That could be and I wouldn't be surprised.

An alternative explanation is that they are trying but are incompetent.

I can think of a couple of other plausible explanations; none of which are complementary.

 

I would really like to know what person or group is the driving force behind the rulebook.

Is it Joyce? Is it the RACLs? Is it some secret cabal of IDPA high priests?

[perttime]

17 hours ago, matteekay said:

 

You left out the part where it's become a "Specialty Division" that's not required at Tier 2+ matches. BUG and PCC, too.

 

Maybe it'll be a full division once Wilson Combat makes a revolver...

 

Can you point me towards the rule that says the other Divisions are mandatory?

[matteekay]

6 hours ago, perttime said:

 

Can you point me towards the rule that says the other Divisions are mandatory?

 

It's laid out clearly in the Match Admin book. 

 

M-3.1.5 - Tier One (all divisions required except PCC)

M-3.2.17 - Tier Two (at least one regular division (so not Rev/Bug/PCC))

M-3.3.18 - Tier Three (at least three regular divisions)

M-3.4.17 - Tier Four (all regular divisions)

M-3.5.14 - Tier Five (all regular divisions)

Edited December 20, 2023 by matteekay

[perttime]

Funny that Tier 1 Matches must take everything except PCC while higher levels can be more choosy.

[Racinready300ex]

1 hour ago, perttime said:

Funny that Tier 1 Matches must take everything except PCC while higher levels can be more choosy.

 

I assume that is because there are likely still some ranges out there that wont let you shoot rifles on their pistol bays. Instead of turning those ranges away you just carve out a little exemption for them. 

[perttime]

14 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I assume that is because there are likely still some ranges out there that wont let you shoot rifles on their pistol bays. Instead of turning those ranges away you just carve out a little exemption for them. 

I didn't realize I was asking about that.

[IHAVEGAS]

On 12/20/2023 at 9:01 AM, Racinready300ex said:

 

I assume that is because there are likely still some ranges out there that wont let you shoot rifles on their pistol bays. Instead of turning those ranges away you just carve out a little exemption for them. 

 

Specific gun requirements are getting to be sort of a common majors thing I think. Some clubs have iron sights only matches, CCP only or CCP and BUG seems to be a thing, one of the matches I'm thinking of attending next year was iron sights only this year and is going to an iron sights only day + an optics day format for 24, etc. 

[Jim Watson]

I am seeing some of that, too.  My Protege went to a Women Only match.  And The Other Guys do it right up to the Nationals.

I think it is an effect of the attempt to provide a Division for everything.

[Racinready300ex]

I setup a 2011 holster last night with the thinnest spacers I had and it measures pretty much exactly 3" maybe a 1/6th heavy depending how you put the tape against my body. 

 

I don't really plan to shoot that gun though. I'll try to make my Rival holster legal next. I think it's going to be tough because

of the shape of the kydex.