broadside72 Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, Southpaw said: It's hard to keep track of which words from WSB are enforced and which can be ignored Like the "only" in "engage with only two shots" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 26 minutes ago, waktasz said: 4-4-4 reload is no good because it says engage the targets, reload then engage the targets. You have to shoot at least one shot to Engage a target, per the rulebook. So 3-3-3-r-1-1-1 would work Yeah, you're right. I thought it was too good to be true. But then I thought it was too good to be true that one can ignore "with only two rounds," yet NROI says otherwise. Either way, one can manipulate the number of shots when before/after reload is not symmetric, e.g., it's free style-reload-WHO. Shoot all but one free style, then add a single shot WHO. Anyways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Has anyone emailed Troy about this yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superkaratemonkeyfighter Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 4-4-4 ? you mean after the 6 extra shot penalty’s never reengaged 3 targets and you would have stacking penalties for the saved transitions. so you would get a -452 points for the stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjob Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 tag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 13 hours ago, waktasz said: Has anyone emailed Troy about this yet? I know of at least one person who responded directly to the NROI blog question of the month, with a fairly long-ish discussion of the issue. (And a conclusion that it should be one procedural for 10.2.4, as the reload should have been after 6 shots, given the "with only two shots on each target" wording.) No response yet. (The last time that person responded directly in a similar fashion, it also took several days for a response, because unsurprisingly, the NROI folks actually things to do outside of blog stuff. I'm assuming there will be a response forthcoming here, too.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 I'd bet a crisp 20 that if there is a response here it will be to basically call us all idiots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich406 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, waktasz said: I'd bet a crisp 20 that if there is a response here it will be to basically call us all idiots The contempt they show towards members in their podcast is actually pretty disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, Rich406 said: The contempt they show towards members in their podcast is actually pretty disgusting. Why I stopped listening to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driver8M3 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 12 minutes ago, waktasz said: I'd bet a crisp 20 that if there is a response here it will be to basically call us all idiots Surprised to see you still in the betting game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 16 hours ago, broadside72 said: Engage T1-T2 with only two shots each, perform mandatory reload, engage T1-T2 with two shots only. " actually case could be made that there is no penalty for going 4-4 then reloading off the clock. as a shooting would have fully complied with THAT stage WSB.... There is nothing that defines a set order. Engage T1-T2 with only two shots each THEN perform a mandatory reload THEN engage T1-T2 with 2 shots each is a completely different WSB. A couple people have added a "Then " makes all the difference in the world. I remember all the guys in HI many of who were international IPSC shooters always emphasising that THEN in breifings.. Now I get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 1 hour ago, driver8M3 said: Surprised to see you still in the betting game... That dollar I lost on Monday night really hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddc Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 52 minutes ago, Joe4d said: actually case could be made that there is no penalty for going 4-4 then reloading off the clock. as a shooting would have fully complied with THAT stage WSB.... There is nothing that defines a set order. Engage T1-T2 with only two shots each THEN perform a mandatory reload THEN engage T1-T2 with 2 shots each is a completely different WSB. A couple people have added a "Then " makes all the difference in the world. I remember all the guys in HI many of who were international IPSC shooters always emphasising that THEN in breifings.. Now I get it. I'm certainly not an English major but the way I see it is that the "then" is implied. In my mind "Engage T1-T2 with only two shots each, perform a mandatory reload, and engage T1-T2 with 2 shots each" is the same as " Engage T1-T2 with only two shots each THEN perform a mandatory reload THEN engage T1-T2 with 2 shots each". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superkaratemonkeyfighter Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 It’s is. and an internet blog is not the rule. so if I’m RO’ing your getting 1 extra shot Penalty for the first string. Don’t care if your making up a miss or how the targets score after the corse of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superkaratemonkeyfighter Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 If this is all the directions that Virgina stages are be run from here on out , doesn’t that put huge pressure on the WSB writers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadside72 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 1 hour ago, ddc said: I'm certainly not an English major but the way I see it is that the "then" is implied. In my mind "Engage T1-T2 with only two shots each, perform a mandatory reload, and engage T1-T2 with 2 shots each" is the same as " Engage T1-T2 with only two shots each THEN perform a mandatory reload THEN engage T1-T2 with 2 shots each". Exactly, English is read left to right and that is the expected order. "Jump off bridge, pull ripcord, land" is the order of operations, but feel free to jump off bridge, land and then pull the ripcord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 4 hours ago, waktasz said: I'd bet a crisp 20 that if there is a response here it will be to basically call us all idiots Last time I wrote an email response to a blog entry about rules like this, I got an intelligent, polite response in several days, and then the blog in question was updated and fixed. So....opinions vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 wow interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Less Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 1 hour ago, waktasz said: wow interesting. The question or the gambling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 That they actually backtracked on an answer they already posted on their site. I assumed all the NROI people had come to a consensus before posting these every month... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadside72 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 12 minutes ago, waktasz said: That they actually backtracked on an answer they already posted on their site. I assumed all the NROI people had come to a consensus before posting these every month... They used to have a post about the Bull Shadow 2 available from CZC being prod/co legal. It said if you bought it from them directly it was not legal, but if you sent them an S2 frame and they built it into a BS2 that is 100% identical to what you buy from them, then that was legal. I sent them an email asking questions and the next day it was removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 I too answered with 1 procedure for not following the WSB. After reading the response, I get the explanation for no penalty based on the fact that there were no extra shots nor extra hits because the competitor didn't fire an extra shot per VC rules - by that logic, you can't give an extra shot penalty BEFORE the reload since you can't give an extra shot penalty if there is no extra shot taken. So since you can't give a penalty for extra shot before the reload and you can't give a penalty for failure to reload, you can't give the shooter a failure to follow WSB either (we've already established target order doesn't matter and stacking apparently only deals with saving transitions now) - which is absolutely NUTS and needs to addressed and turned into common sense. My head hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadside72 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Doubling down I see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjob Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Who's on First, What's on second, I don't know is on third! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lroy Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 http://www.classifiercalc.com/classifier_diagrams/06-03.pdf So for this Classifier, it's legal to shoot 4 on each target, reload and put one on each? It would be the same amount of shots total. If the word only doesn't mean anything, whats the penalty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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