Scheel roller delayed buffer

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

7 minutes ago, zzt said:

Well I went down to the range this afternoon to try the adjusted setup.  Three heavy springs in the buffer, blue recoil spring, no weight in the bolt and short stroked.  More recoil and dot bounce than with my old setup.  Tried it with the bolt weight in.  Same, same.  Then I substituted a 5.56 JP carbine spring for the Sheel blue spring.  That toned things down, but I still had more recoil and dot bounce that my old setup.  I only shot 30 rounds  The brass seemed a little cleaner, but the action was dirty.  I can't imaging anyone wanting to shoot 132PF loads with this setup, at least not in my Leadstar Prime.

 

I'm going back to the old setup which was 12.5 oz. bolt, Blitzkrieg standard hydraulic buffer, their 3/4" short stroke slug, JP 308 carbine recoil spring and the shorter MPX short stroke plug in an A5 tube.

FWIW, I had better luck with less spring strength in the buffer.  Heavier spring pressure there made the recoil worse.  Finally settled on 1 light and 1 strong spring.

[ChuckS]

10 minutes ago, LowSpeedHighDrag said:

FWIW, I had better luck with less spring strength in the buffer.  Heavier spring pressure there made the recoil worse.  Finally settled on 1 light and 1 strong spring.

What are the positions of the springs?

 

[zzt]

13 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

What are the positions of the springs?

 

 

1,2 and 3.

 

Going with lighter springs makes the action more violent.

Edited November 16, 2021 by zzt

[ChuckS]

58 minutes ago, zzt said:

 

1,2 and 3.

 

Going with lighter springs makes the action more violent.

Thanks but I was asking Lowspeed what he was using.  

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

14 hours ago, ChuckS said:

What are the positions of the springs?

 

1 light, 1 strong - I forget which order (slots 1 and 2).  Probably best to try both in your setup anyway.

 

ETA:

     1(weak), 2(strong)

 

As always, YMMV.

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by LowSpeedHighDrag

[Racinready300ex]

I'm running my CO load 135 gr blues at about 138 pf. Springs are

1 light

2 heavy

3 light

 

I still have stuff I want to test but it's the off season so not much effort right now. I also have a 2nd gun now I need to break in and start testing. 

 

My testing I try not to worry about softness but I do pay attention. The main thing I look at is hits on target and splits.

[AKJD]

So I took a chance and shot the setup in our Tuesday night 2 stage match without a test fire.  No problems with function.  Didn't really see much difference from my prior setup which was the Blitzkrieg short stroke hydraulic buffer with 308 carbine spring in a A-5 tube with Taccom SS bolt with weight in.   With the Scheel I took the weight out and set it up the springs per the directions in the box.  Load is 115 grain at 135 pf.  A match may not be the best way to try and compare them so I ordered another lower and when it comes in I will shoot them side by side for a better comparison.  

[Boomstick303]

On 11/17/2021 at 9:23 AM, Racinready300ex said:

My testing I try not to worry about softness but I do pay attention. The main thing I look at is hits on target and splits.

 

Have you had anytime to test this system?  I ran into a guy at the Colorado state match running this system.  I was able to shoot it and the dot had minimal movement if any.  Essentially one sight picture double tap.  I was impressed as this system has created the least amount of movement of any buffer system I have tested to date.  Was curious if you had any data yet?

[Racinready300ex]

1 hour ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

Have you had anytime to test this system?  I ran into a guy at the Colorado state match running this system.  I was able to shoot it and the dot had minimal movement if any.  Essentially one sight picture double tap.  I was impressed as this system has created the least amount of movement of any buffer system I have tested to date.  Was curious if you had any data yet?

 

I struggled most of the winter with my gun TBH. I was having two issues, one was mag related and one was from me over short stroking the gun. I finally stopped using the one mag once I figured that out and dropped back to a basically full stroke. Just enough bumper to make sure I don't get any coil bind with the spring. Now the gun is now running 100%

 

When I did that I took it to the range  and the dot really doesn't move much. I really don't think the short stroke was helping me any. So I'm leaving it like this. I shot our section match yesterday and managed a 2A on a long paper with a .17 split. Pleased with that, and finished 3rd best finish yet. I also shot the Scheel banner on the next stage. But at least I was using his buffer when I did it. 

[Boomstick303]

11 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

Scheel banner on the next stage. But at least I was using his buffer when I did it.

 

I am sure you made them proud.

 

Thanks for sharing the info on the buffer.  What springs did you install on the buffer and what PF are you running?

Edited April 25, 2022 by Boomstick303

[Racinready300ex]

13 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

I am sure you made them proud.

 

Thanks for sharing the info on the buffer.  What springs did you install on the buffer and what PF are you running?

 

Right now I'm running 115's at 133 PF and the springs they recommend. I think it's one light one heavy, I forget exactly. 

 

I was hoping to run into Corey before the day was over to joke with him about it. It was right between two targets and I got on the trigger just a touch early. I'm sure the RO's narced on me when he got there. 

 

edit to add, I'm running a jp bolt which is pretty stout. I still want to play with a lighter bolt and the spring settings to see if it could be better. But a this point the season is hear and the gun is running so it'll stay like it is until winter. 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Racinready300ex

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

On 11/16/2021 at 6:30 PM, LowSpeedHighDrag said:

FWIW, I had better luck with less spring strength in the buffer.  Heavier spring pressure there made the recoil worse.  Finally settled on 1 light and 1 strong spring.

I’ve abandoned the Scheel buffer after it repeatedly doubled in an Area match.  Badly.

Switched back to the JP SCS and had smooth well-buffered results.  Gun is as fast and accurate as I need., and the dot doesn’t move that much.

[Bdh821]

I shot Corey's gun at A6 with his steel challenge ammo, his USPSA ammo loads, and my PCC ammo.  I was amazed with how much it tames these blowback PCCs.  I also shot a Davinci PCC with the Scheel roller buffer system in it this past weekend at A8 Delmarva...  I don't even use a blowback PCC and I would suggest everyone who has one to try it.  It's game changer IMO....

 

11 hours ago, LowSpeedHighDrag said:

I’ve abandoned the Scheel buffer after it repeatedly doubled in an Area match.  Badly.

Switched back to the JP SCS and had smooth well-buffered results.  Gun is as fast and accurate as I need., and the dot doesn’t move that much.

 

Sounds like you didn't tune the gun with the new buffer system before giving up... To each their own...

[Boomstick303]

3 minutes ago, Bdh821 said:

I was amazed with how much it tames these blowback PCCs

 

I did not feel that the system did not tame the recoil at all, but it sure as hell minimized dot movement.  Not sure how that works.

 

I feel my JP and the Davinci I shot with the Scheel buffer had essentially the same recoil, but your form on holding and rifle was not as strict to minimize the dot movement for the Davinci.  Meaning through a course of fire you do not have to be as disciplined in how you hold the rifle to score the same or better points.   

 

I always tune the PCC in regards to dot movement, not felt recoil.  I believe its worth trying out for certain.  

[dmshozer1]

How do you order it,

The website says not for ordering?

I'm trying to find out if I can use it with a fixed rifle stock.

I'm guessing I can use a 2-3/4 spacer.

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

1 hour ago, Bdh821 said:

Sounds like you didn't tune the gun with the new buffer system before giving up... To each their own...

Actually, I did.  Ran fine at the range and during the first half of the Area match, after which it just kept doubling more.  Not willing to put that many rounds through it to see when it would break.

[Boomstick303]

23 minutes ago, dmshozer1 said:

How do you order it,

 

https://coreys28.sg-host.com/cart/

 

Should work.  I contacted him yesterday with a bunch of questions, and he called my yesterday by phone a couple of hours after sending him an email with the questions and my phone number.  Contact him with any questions.  

 

coreyscheel@hotmail.com

 

I did not see any complete rifle length system, but it would seem he can get you what you need as it seems all of the parts are available for the rifle length system.

[Boomstick303]

8 minutes ago, LowSpeedHighDrag said:

Not willing to put that many rounds through it to see when it would break.

 

Why would it break if its doubling?  Figure out what is causing the doubling.  Most likely the trigger setup is too light for that buffer assembly if I were to take a guess.  Or possibly poor grip on the rifle while on the clock, or combination of poor grip and trigger.  I would think we are not all holding the rifle exactly the same in testing as when we are on the clock shooting at all sorts of angles. 

 

Maybe some things to think about, if you ever did care to revisit that buffer. 

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

13 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

Why would it break if its doubling?  Figure out what is causing the doubling.  Most likely the trigger setup is too light for that buffer assembly if I were to take a guess.  Or possibly poor grip on the rifle while on the clock, or combination of poor grip and trigger.  I would think we are not all holding the rifle exactly the same in testing as when we are on the clock shooting at all sorts of angles. 

 

Maybe some things to think about, if you ever did care to revisit that buffer. 

By "break" I simply meant starting to double.  A lot.

 

It was working correctly before the match, and had a fair number of rounds through it.  Didn't start doubling until about half way through the match, and continued to get worse as the day went on.  Not fun to start dumping rounds in an Area match.

 

In order to retest I'd have to set up the buffer, then run hundreds of rounds through it.  Too much time and ammo for the results with this buffer compared to what I'm using now.  Just did a 5 stage IDPA match, and was down 6 for the match.  Almost every target was down zero using quick double taps.   For me at least it wouldn't be worth the effort and expense to keep trying to tune it.

[dmshozer1]

1 hour ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

https://coreys28.sg-host.com/cart/

 

Should work.  I contacted him yesterday with a bunch of questions, and he called my yesterday by phone a couple of hours after sending him an email with the questions and my phone number.  Contact him with any questions.  

 

coreyscheel@hotmail.com

 

I did not see any complete rifle length system, but it would seem he can get you what you need as it seems all of the parts are available for the rifle length system.

Thank you,

[Boomstick303]

I was able to finally install and test this buffer system.  Here are my observations.  I converted from the JP SCS in my JP GMR-15 with 14.5" barrel with pin and welded normal comp.  The system is short stroked.

 

When I initially installed the system it was incredibly stiff to charge.  SO much so, I though it was going to be an issue.  Mind you I did install three springs in the buffer.  Soft springs in positions 1 and 3 and a stiff spring in position 2.  The system became very easy to charge after running about 50 rounds through the system.  Zero issues feeding MG 124 Gr JHP and 124 gr PD FMJ bullets. I did take out the soft spring in position 1 to do some additional testing with only 1 soft and on hard spring in the buffer.  I felt the dot moved more with 2 spring, so I installed the 3rd spring and ran about 250 rounds through the gun without issue.  

 

After break in you can certainly tell it is a 5# main buffer spring.  Much easier to charge, and not as much force closing the bolt, than the JP SCS Short stroke buffer I was originally using.  I will be curious at the maintenance periodicity in spring replacements.  Both for the internal buffer springs and the main buffer spring.    

 

Dot movement is minimal, shooting 124 gr bullets, at PF from 130-135.  I felt more confident shooting targets at further distances with quicker splits.  Hitting a 6-7" plate at 25 yds. at 0.12 splits.  

 

Looking forward to running the system through the summer to see how reliable it is.  

[Mo Zee]

5 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

I was able to finally install and test this buffer system.  Here are my observations.  I converted from the JP SCS in my JP GMR-15 with 14.5" barrel with pin and welded normal comp.  The system is short stroked.

 

When I initially installed the system it was incredibly stiff to charge.  SO much so, I though it was going to be an issue.  Mind you I did install three springs in the buffer.  Soft springs in positions 1 and 3 and a stiff spring in position 2.  The system became very easy to charge after running about 50 rounds through the system.  Zero issues feeding MG 124 Gr JHP and 124 gr PD FMJ bullets. I did take out the soft spring in position 1 to do some additional testing with only 1 soft and on hard spring in the buffer.  I felt the dot moved more with 2 spring, so I installed the 3rd spring and ran about 250 rounds through the gun without issue.  

 

After break in you can certainly tell it is a 5# main buffer spring.  Much easier to charge, and not as much force closing the bolt, than the JP SCS Short stroke buffer I was originally using.  I will be curious at the maintenance periodicity in spring replacements.  Both for the internal buffer springs and the main buffer spring.    

 

Dot movement is minimal, shooting 124 gr bullets, at PF from 130-135.  I felt more confident shooting targets at further distances with quicker splits.  Hitting a 6-7" plate at 25 yds. at 0.12 splits.  

 

Looking forward to running the system through the summer to see how reliable it is.  

Thanks for the update. Mine is on its way from Chuck. Keen to get it going. Will hopefully be able to post some info with my findings in a month or so. 

[dfox]

On 6/26/2021 at 5:05 PM, StripedLizard said:

Just installed the tube w/ buffer. Like the magnetic system, this system is very hard to charge. Harder actually. Will see after breaking it in how much that changes. I wish there was some sort of tool that would help me depress the rollers so that I can tune it quicker. The rollers themselves are flush with the outside of the buffer. No range time until next week unfortunately.

 

 

[dfox]

Leave the chamber flag in during non use. The springs will take a set and it will charge easier.

[dfox]

On 11/16/2021 at 4:30 PM, LowSpeedHighDrag said:

FWIW, I had better luck with less spring strength in the buffer.  Heavier spring pressure there made the recoil worse.  Finally settled on 1 light and 1 strong spring.

Don’t short stroke it. It causes it to be more violent. I use a stiff spring in the 1st hole, light spring in hole 2&3. Running 115 at 1150 PF with comp shoots extremely flat the dot don’t move. My bolt weighs 11 oz no weight.