Scheel roller delayed buffer

[dfox]

On 4/25/2022 at 2:35 PM, Racinready300ex said:

 

Right now I'm running 115's at 133 PF and the springs they recommend. I think it's one light one heavy, I forget exactly. 

 

I was hoping to run into Corey before the day was over to joke with him about it. It was right between two targets and I got on the trigger just a touch early. I'm sure the RO's narced on me when he got there. 

 

edit to add, I'm running a jp bolt which is pretty stout. I still want to play with a lighter bolt and the spring settings to see if it could be better. But a this point the season is hear and the gun is running so it'll stay like it is until winter. 

I am running a Tacomm std ar15 bolt weighs 12.4 oz without weight using stiff spring in 1,light springs in 2&3. PF 133. Using blue spring and no short stroke spacers. Short stroking makes it more violent. Red dot doesn’t move. Using a Taccom3g 5.25 barrel with 2 port comp and then welded sleeve to 16”. I have 4 Pcc’s with Scheels roller delay.  One I shoot for steel challenge light spring only in #2 spot 105gr bullet at 75PF. With white buffer spring. Shoots like a 22LR.

[dfox]

Just now, dfox said:

I am running a Tacomm std ar15 bolt weighs 12.4 oz without weight using stiff spring in 1,light springs in 2&3. PF 133 with 115gr bullets.Using blue spring and no short stroke spacers. Short stroking makes it more violent. Red dot doesn’t move. Using a Taccom3g 5.25 barrel with 2 port comp and then welded sleeve to 16”. I have 4 Pcc’s with Scheels roller delay.  One I shoot for steel challenge light spring only in #2 spot 105gr bullet at 75PF. With white buffer spring. Shoots like a 22LR.

 

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

25 minutes ago, dfox said:

Don’t short stroke it. It causes it to be more violent. I use a stiff spring in the 1st hole, light spring in hole 2&3. Running 115 at 1150 PF with comp shoots extremely flat the dot don’t move. My bolt weighs 11 oz no weight.

Thanks, I'll give that a try.

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

25 minutes ago, dfox said:

Don’t short stroke it. It causes it to be more violent. I use a stiff spring in the 1st hole, light spring in hole 2&3. Running 115 at 1150 PF with comp shoots extremely flat the dot don’t move. My bolt weighs 11 oz no weight.

Thanks, I'll give that a try.

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

25 minutes ago, dfox said:

Don’t short stroke it. It causes it to be more violent. I use a stiff spring in the 1st hole, light spring in hole 2&3. Running 115 at 1150 PF with comp shoots extremely flat the dot don’t move. My bolt weighs 11 oz no weight.

Thanks, I'll give that a try.

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

1 minute ago, LowSpeedHighDrag said:

Thanks, I'll give that a try.

Apologies for the stuttering... 

[dfox]

On 11/16/2021 at 11:27 AM, AKJD said:

The buffer retainer is removed.  I believe the hammer was catching in the notch on the bottom of the TACCOM bolt which is the top bolt in the picture.  I put a longer spacer in along with 4 quarters to shorten the stroke and it cycles without hanging up now.

I have the same bolt with the lock back notch. That notch catches on the hammer. When you add spacers it makes a lot more recoil. I modified my bolt and it works perfect. I will try to put a picture of it on here. You have to lay back that edge where the bolt catches. Tim at Taccom3g told me how to do it.

Edited August 12, 2022 by dfox

[Dirty_J]

Also mod the Taccom ESSB in this way. The LRBHO notch is more trouble than it’s worth. 
 

[TRUBL]

Firm believer that LRBHO or BHO is not needed and is more of a liability in competition!!\

I noticed that the two ESSB's shown are older ones.......we figured out how to make them work with BHO and all....and all new ESSB's are made right!! So if you have an old ESSb and HAVE to have BHO or LRBHO here is the trick to getting that to work and feed!! Polish a little radius on that sharp corner.

 

The ESSB was designed to be short stroked......if you are not short stroking, then you have to blow that away like in the above pictures so the hammer doesn't catch.

Edited August 12, 2022 by TRUBL

[dwzuspsa]

Purchase a Sheel roller buffer and shot our end of season Hozer Match, 250 round minimum....upon returning home and inspecting the buffer I noticed the the buffer had rotated out of the side hole machined in the buffer tube....do not inow how many rounds this was the condition  but the Taccom upper with the Scheels buffer still was 100 per cent....too bad the end of the season but will have to watch for the rotation during winter practice other wise the rifle ran the same for the hole match and mine was the only one that did...thanks Tim!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mrvip27]

New Gen 2 on the way...

 

https://coreys28.sg-host.com/product/pre-order-sale-roller-delayed-buffer-system-gen2/

 

Gen2 has:
1. Wider, Stonger Rollers- wider 4140 steel rollers with 2x bearings per roller.
2. More adjustability- Wider array of lockup pressures to tune to your specific setup.
3. Removable Weight- Removable buffer weight to adjust reciprocating mass for tuning.
4. Better Springs- greater spring life and less deformation.
5. Chamfers and Clearances- Modifications made to eliminate pinch points and spring binding areas so the springs aren’t stressed to their limits. 100% reliability over thousands of rds.

 

[brian45acp]

Was going to try this but see Gen 2 is near so I’ll wait. Considering the jp5 but I have 2 gmr-13’s and this would be a nice upgrade for way less.

 

my concern is the comment above the buffer rotation and the rollers out of their notches. Nothing keeps it tracking true and should this happen what would be the result?

[ysrracer]

16 hours ago, brian45acp said:

Was going to try this but see Gen 2 is near so I’ll wait. Considering the jp5 but I have 2 gmr-13’s and this would be a nice upgrade for way less.

 

my concern is the comment above the buffer rotation and the rollers out of their notches. Nothing keeps it tracking true and should this happen what would be the result?

 

Mine never rotates. And I blast the crap out of it.

[Boomstick303]

On 12/5/2022 at 6:33 AM, brian45acp said:

Nothing keeps it tracking true and should this happen what would be the result?

 

Nor has mine.  It always tracked true.

[Dirty_J]

Been using the Scheel pretty hard for 6 months now. No rotation. 
 

It was an initial concern of mine before using the buffer… has turned out to be a big ol’ nothing. It needs some force to cause the rotation… the BCG is just pushing it straight back. The only way it could possibly twist is if you have the spring all twisted during the insertion… and that kinetic force is going to work its way loose. 

[brian45acp]

13 hours ago, Dirty_J said:

Been using the Scheel pretty hard for 6 months now. No rotation. 
 

It was an initial concern of mine before using the buffer… has turned out to be a big ol’ nothing. It needs some force to cause the rotation… the BCG is just pushing it straight back. The only way it could possibly twist is if you have the spring all twisted during the insertion… and that kinetic force is going to work its way loose. 

Thanks man. I will give it a try. Couple shooters I know have it. I was RO this Saturday and noticed the cut outs in the buffer tube and wondered wtf they were lol.

 

I run the gmr 13 and SCS for years now and it’s been good to me. Just want to tame that dot and get tighter hits on double taps.

 

What about the bumpers? Are you guys running the bumpers to short stroke it?

 

The blue spring seems really light. He has 14lb springs as well. Have you guys found the blue springs to be fine or need heavier?

Edited December 7, 2022 by brian45acp

[Dirty_J]

The blue spring is what I run.
 

That’s one of the pros of the system… so little return force removes all the “nose dip” of the carbine when the bolt slams home. 

 

I use only the small spacer as provided with the Scheel system. Just prevents the buffer from bottoming out and binding the spring coils. I haven’t found an advantage to short stroking this (and I previously used the Kynshot hydraulic buffer short stroked). 
 

The only nuance I’ve come across is with MBX steel Glock mags. Since they don’t have a polymer shell, the feed lips will get dented/dinged. This can add drag to the top round being stripped off by the bolt. The light return spring could be an issue “IF” you let your feedlips get out of spec. Completely a non-issue with OEM type mags. 

[brian45acp]

1 hour ago, Dirty_J said:

The blue spring is what I run.
 

That’s one of the pros of the system… so little return force removes all the “nose dip” of the carbine when the bolt slams home. 

 

I use only the small spacer as provided with the Scheel system. Just prevents the buffer from bottoming out and binding the spring coils. I haven’t found an advantage to short stroking this (and I previously used the Kynshot hydraulic buffer short stroked). 
 

The only nuance I’ve come across is with MBX steel Glock mags. Since they don’t have a polymer shell, the feed lips will get dented/dinged. This can add drag to the top round being stripped off by the bolt. The light return spring could be an issue “IF” you let your feedlips get out of spec. Completely a non-issue with OEM type mags. 

That’s interesting with the MBX mags. I have them as well and started using them recently. Not sure what would change using this buffer in causing that to happen to the mags. I run a Jp and my only concern was the mags eating my mag catch. I’m showing wear early on so I’m watching that and they don’t make a steel catch for the gmr 13.

 

I also was looking at the hydro buffer. Is this Scheel a big difference from that setup?

 

As for the mag springs that makes sense. I’ve run stock jp springs and my guess is they could be a lot lighter.

[Dirty_J]

21 minutes ago, brian45acp said:

That’s interesting with the MBX mags. I have them as well and started using them recently. Not sure what would change using this buffer in causing that to happen to the mags. I run a Jp and my only concern was the mags eating my mag catch. I’m showing wear early on so I’m watching that and they don’t make a steel catch for the gmr 13.

 

I also was looking at the hydro buffer. Is this Scheel a big difference from that setup?

 

As for the mag springs that makes sense. I’ve run stock jp springs and my guess is they could be a lot lighter.

Ooooof. Bummer on the GMR13... didn't realize that was a polymer catch. Something to keep an eye on if you're running steel mags. 

 

The issue with getting dents and dings in the feedlips isn't attributed to the buffer system. That'll just happen with general use. The difference is with most AR9 buffers... folks are running 308 carbine/rifle springs, which are over 12# of spring load... and the Scheel blue spring is only like 5# of load. Just not as much force there to push rounds out of the magazine. And when the feedlips catch some dings... it can be harder for the Scheel system to feed rounds... if your mags are all beat up. If you keep the MBX mags squared away... you'll not have these issues. 

 

I wouldn't say theres a HUGE difference in the buffers... Scheel vs Blitz/Kynshot. Just different in how you tune them. 

 

For the Scheel, there's one action spring for minor PF loads (and the white spring for sub-minor) and you have hundreds of possibilities with the (up to 3) roller delay springs. 

 

For the hydraulic... it's more plug and play with less adjustments. Choose the buffer based on your PF (factory ammo or handloaded specific for PCC) and you choose the action spring based on the barrel length. Springco Orange or JP 308 for most 14.5-16" barrels. Lesser springs for shorter barrels like the Brekke comp Xtension barrels or the Taccom ULW. 

[brian45acp]

I have an alloy catch but steel vs alloy. The mag dings sound like a rifle issue. I’ve never seen that on my jps.

 

I may just get the hydro buffer. The Scheel seems cool but it’s not refined yet. If you are saying not are similar in performance then I don’t want to go down that path of playing with things.

 

I go back and forth loading to 132 or 148pf. I run 124 jhp at either 1070fps or 1200fps. Mostly I run the 1200fps and feel I can be faster with them. But I’m chasing this last little bit to gain and edge. I’m M class and if I can settle that dot a bit more than with the JP system it would benefit me.

[Dirty_J]

1 minute ago, brian45acp said:

I have an alloy catch but steel vs alloy. The mag dings sound like a rifle issue. I’ve never seen that on my jps.

 

I may just get the hydro buffer. The Scheel seems cool but it’s not refined yet. If you are saying not are similar in performance then I don’t want to go down that path of playing with things.

 

I go back and forth loading to 132 or 148pf. I run 124 jhp at either 1070fps or 1200fps. Mostly I run the 1200fps and feel I can be faster with them. But I’m chasing this last little bit to gain and edge. I’m M class and if I can settle that dot a bit more than with the JP system it would benefit me.

Mag dings are the mags. Not the rifle. They'll get beat up from dropping them on the ground for reloads... or slamming them in there on unloaded starts. There's no over-insertion tab on the MBX steel mags, like you have on OEM mags), so it's possible for the magazine to hit the BCG when inserted harshly. 

 

I'd shoot the Scheel or the Blitz. I like both. The Scheel just offers much more adjustability whereas the Blitz is a one-size fits all and you just learn to shoot that recoil impulse. The Scheel can be made to feel very different based on your preference. 

 

If you're jumping between 132 and 148PF... get the hydraulic. It can better deal with varying PF... the Scheel is meant to be dialed in to your specific load... and if you change the load... you should change the roller delay springs to compliment the new load. Easy enough to do... but it sounds like you're after a more "plug and play" setup. 

[brian45acp]

That makes sense. I try to baby these MBX mags. I did notice it doesn’t have a stop as well. 
You compared both systems so if the hydro is close it may just be easier to deal with. I don’t know why I like hotter ammo but I do. 

Edited December 7, 2022 by brian45acp

[Dirty_J]

9 minutes ago, brian45acp said:

That makes sense. I try to baby these MBX mags. I did notice it doesn’t have a stop as well. 
You compared both systems so if the hydro is close it may just be easier to deal with. I don’t know why I like hotter ammo but I do. 

The scheel handles hotter ammo just fine.. (I run 138-140PF 115’s myself), it’s just not well suited to jump from one type of ammo to another without swapping roller springs. 
 

Even swapping from 115’s to 124’s of similar PF can feel very different behind the optic. Different chamber pressures… and that’s what the roller delay focuses on… keeps the gun locked up based on a specific chamber pressure. 
 

The Scheel system does tend to keep the upper/lower much cleaner because of the lock up. Whereas a direct blowback system lets more powder residue and carbon back into the receiver. 

[brian45acp]

Good points. I can’t freaking decide lol. For now I have been running the gmr13 stock for 70k rounds reliably so changing things has me nervous.  Now you have me leaning toward Gen 2 Scheel. 
 

I have a pcc match this weekend and have an itch to change things lol. I’m going to run my heavy short stroke scs with 4 T and 1 S with stock spring and the faster ammo. 
 

I will decide on the Scheel after this weeks match. I have a friend with the Gen1 Scheel so I’ll pay closer attention to it this weekend.

Edited December 7, 2022 by brian45acp

[brian45acp]

All this headache makes me want the jp5 and be done. Then I watched the video from jp on its spare parts and it’s crazy how many little parts it takes. The simplicity is now gone and additionally there are tons of roller size and angle block combos. Both of which seem like more potential drama.