DQ or not?

[Sophie]

Is it right to get DQed when in slidelock?

We had a stage where 10 rds were fired from inside a car.  After those 10 I was in slidelock. I exited the car planning on my reload at the next target position. I was told to stop. RO said that I had swept myself exiting the car. DQed me.

[louu]

You can never sweep yourself except for when your gun is in a DOH holster and you can never break the 180

[Nathanb]

It’s a dq. 

[perttime]

USPSA Rules:

10.5

Match Disqualification

–

Unsafe Gun Handling

Examples of unsafe gun handling include, but are not limited to:

...

...

10.5.5 Allowing the muzzle of a firearm to point at any part of any person’s body during a course of fire (i.e. sweeping).

[Sarge]

2 hours ago, Sophie said:

Is it right to get DQed when in slidelock?

We had a stage where 10 rds were fired from inside a car.  After those 10 I was in slidelock. I exited the car planning on my reload at the next target position. I was told to stop. RO said that I had swept myself exiting the car. DQed me.

You honestly don’t know the answer to this? Of course it’s a DQ.

[Sophie]

2 hours ago, Sarge said:

You honestly don’t know the answer to this? Of course it’s a DQ.

No Sarge, I didn't. That's why I asked.

It was my first IDPA match. I did not even realize that I had done it.

I did not argue the call at all. I was just terribly embarrasd. But thanks for your

Insightful reply.

[Bagellord]

The reason the rule is written that way is to remove the "but was it loaded or not" from the RO's list of things to watch.

[davsco]

yes a dq in idpa and uspsa etc, during a course of fire even if the gun is empty.  do yourself a favor and read thru the rulebooks, esp sections re unsafe gun handling, disqualification, etc.  there are things you can get dq'd for that technically aren't unsafe, but the rules are proactive/redundant to hopefully stop shooters before they are actually unsafe.  if you're new to the various gun games, never hurts to do a dry run (with your hand & finger as gun) and ask someone to watch you for anything 'unsafe' or inefficient regarding the stage.

[SGT_Schultz]

2 hours ago, Sophie said:

No Sarge, I didn't. That's why I asked.

It was my first IDPA match. I did not even realize that I had done it.

I did not argue the call at all. I was just terribly embarrasd. But thanks for your

Insightful reply.

 

It is actually quite an insightful reply.

 

He was surprised that you didn't know because it is normal to expect participants to have a basic grasp of a shooting sport's safety rules, even on their very first match, when the rulebook is available for free on line and the safety/disqualification rules are in their own section.

 

 

[Sophie]

Just now, SGT_Schultz said:

 

It is actually quite an insightful reply.

 

He was surprised that you didn't know because it is normal to expect participants to have a basic grasp of a shooting sport's safety rules, even on their very first match, when the rulebook is available for free on line and the safety/disqualification rules are in their own section.

 

 

Please don't insinuate that I do not have " a basic grasp of shooting sports safety rules". I clearly understand the rules, and never questioned if I had made the infraction. I was just unclear on the condition of the pistol at time of infraction.

I apologize for being a newbie.

[wchangose]

Sophie, don't worry about the folks in this forum too much.  You asked a valid question.  Follow them for a while and you'll see it's not just you.

 

My advice is twofold. 

 

First, search youtube, there are a lot of folks who've made intro to IDPA/USPSA videos and you'll get a quick download of most of your questions.  

 

Second, at the next match, find someone who looks like they know what they're doing, introduce yourself, and tell them you're new.  I've yet to see a shooter at a match who isn't willing to help out.  (If they tell you that you should have read the rulebook before you got there, find someone else.)

[warpspeed]

Nice job guys - great way to welcome the new shooters with questions.  

 

Sophie - as pointed out, the muzzle of the gun can never be pointed at you or anyone else regardless of condition - loaded or not.

 

IMHO, stages where the required movements may result in breaking the 180 or sweeping the shooter should be reconfigured so that isn't possible but clearly not everyone fells that way. At a minimum the SO should point it out and make sure the shooters are aware.  

 

Sounds like you handled it with a lot of class, humility and grace.  Don't let it scare you away. And don't let the knuckleheads here scare you away either.

[Sarge]

23 minutes ago, warpspeed said:

Nice job guys - great way to welcome the new shooters with questions.  

 

Sophie - as pointed out, the muzzle of the gun can never be pointed at you or anyone else regardless of condition - loaded or not.

 

IMHO, stages where the required movements may result in breaking the 180 or sweeping the shooter should be reconfigured so that isn't possible but clearly not everyone fells that way. At a minimum the SO should point it out and make sure the shooters are aware.  

 

Sounds like you handled it with a lot of class, humility and grace.  Don't let it scare you away. And don't let the knuckleheads here scare you away either.

So, just so I understand, if I don’t build a completely idiot proof stage I’m a knucklehead. And yes I’m sorry, but if a shooter does not know they can’t point a gun at themselves or anybody else without being DQ’ed they really shouldn’t be playing yet.

[SGT_Schultz]

44 minutes ago, Sophie said:

Please don't insinuate that I do not have " a basic grasp of shooting sports safety rules".

 

You didn't.  You assumed an unloaded pistol was exempt from the disqualifying offense of letting a pistol point at any part of your body.

 

You admitted as much.  If you had that grasp your question wouldn't exist.

 

No different than those who point their pistols at others and whine "but it's unloaded" when called out on it.

Edited November 28, 2020 by SGT_Schultz

[Sophie]

1 minute ago, Sarge said:

    if a shooter does not know they can’t point a gun at themselves or anybody else without being DQ’ed they really shouldn’t be playing yet.

 

Of course I know that. That wasn't my question, was it?

I made a mistake & openly admitted it, accepted the consequences, and will learn from it.

Is there really a need to be so condescending? 

 

[Sophie]

5 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

   You assumed an unloaded pistol was exempt from the disqualifying offense of letting a pistol point at any part of your body.

 

No different than those who point their pistols at others and whine "but it's unloaded" when called out on it.

No, I did not ASSUME anything. I asked a question.

Huge difference between my mistake and intentionally pointing a weapon at someone.

Why must you act like that?

[SGT_Schultz]

8 minutes ago, Sophie said:

Huge difference between my mistake and intentionally pointing a weapon at someone.

 

No, there is not.  The consequences are the same regardless of intent.

 

You are asking the question because you did not think pointing an unloaded firearm at yourself should be a DQable offense. 

 

Why the hell else would you ask?

 

I would not want you on my squad

[Cuz]

47 minutes ago, Sarge said:

So, just so I understand, if I don’t build a completely idiot proof stage I’m a knucklehead. And yes I’m sorry, but if a shooter does not know they can’t point a gun at themselves or anybody else without being DQ’ed they really shouldn’t be playing yet.

oh Sarge, we love you for the knucklehead that you are. If it weren’t for the COVID pandemic I’d have someone go over and give you a hug...

 

[GrumpyOne]

10 hours ago, Sophie said:

Is it right to get DQed when in slidelock?

We had a stage where 10 rds were fired from inside a car.  After those 10 I was in slidelock. I exited the car planning on my reload at the next target position. I was told to stop. RO said that I had swept myself exiting the car. DQed me.

In short, yes, it is correct. There are very, very, few instances where you can point a weapon at any part of yourself (or anyone else),  loaded or unloaded, and not be DQ'ed.  I don't shoot IDPA, but in USPSA, any time in a COF other than when drawing the weapon and sweeping your feet on said draw,  whether the weapon is unloaded or not, it is a DQ. 

[Sophie]

44 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

No, there is not.   

 

I would not want you on my squad

Yes there is.

No worries, I don't like shooting with drama queens.

Edited November 28, 2020 by Sophie

[Sophie]

8 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said:

In short, yes, it is correct. There are very, very, few instances where you can point a weapon at any part of yourself (or anyone else),  loaded or unloaded, and not be DQ'ed.  I don't shoot IDPA, but in USPSA, any time in a COF other than when drawing the weapon and sweeping your feet on said draw,  whether the weapon is unloaded or not, it is a DQ. 

Thank you for the simple answer without all the drama.

Seems like every internet group has a few drama queens.

[waktasz]

Since we are on the subject, IDPA likes to have a lot of seated stages where you must draw while seated. Make sure to get the gun up and horizontal before swinging it arouund. The like to have these stages then watch for people to sweep their knees with their guns and get DQ'd

[teros135]

We've seen this before, many times.  Someone comes in to BE, poses a question that's related to an issue they had in a match or on the range, doesn't get the answer they want, and attacks those who responded honestly to what they actually read.  It seemed like a fair question, at first, but much drama has ensued because of the directness of some of the answers and from escalating name-calling (drama queens?  Really?). 

 

Please give some credit for the time that the members took to respond and the fact that many of them are very serious about both the sport and the safety of everyone in it.  I'm with those that feel that it's a really good idea to read the rules before your first match, and everybody should know what's unsafe in a gun-oriented sport.  It appears that safety has been emphasized in this discussion, as it's really the core of what the problem was that day on the range.  Nothing that you can't go home and work on, as our most of our range mistakes. 

 

[waktasz]

Most people that get DQ'd at their first match shouldn't (and don't) come back. At least she's trying to learn, even if it's a dumb question, lol

 

[matteekay]

6 minutes ago, waktasz said:

Since we are on the subject, IDPA likes to have a lot of seated stages where you must draw while seated. Make sure to get the gun up and horizontal before swinging it arouund. The like to have these stages then watch for people to sweep their knees with their guns and get DQ'd

 

Or have you draw and shoot while riding an exercise bike. At a state championship. Try reloading a revolver without pointing it down to where your knees usually aren't...

 

Sophie, it sounds like your initial question was answered with appropriate and expected degrees of helpfulness and sass. Welcome aboard. Waktasz makes a good point if you're going to make IDPA your sport of choice - they *love* weird starts. You may want to incorporate some non-standard motion into your dryfire, or at the very least, consider strategies for odd scenarios. We had an inside-a-car start at Regionals this year and it threw a lot of people. I just kept my arm more-or-less extended downrange and took the extra two steps around the door rather than risking flagging myself by trying to close it or make any sort of fluid exit.