Legion vs everything for carry ops?

[RJH]

I am looking at getting into carry ops and am strongly considering a legion, but am wondering if there is anything else i should really consider.  I am out on the walther and caniks because of the small/short grip, but other than that I am open to consider whatever.  Striker or da/sa, steel or plastic. So for those of you who switched to a legion or from a legion, what did you come from and why do you like the legion better and if you went to something else from a legion, why and what?

 

 

Price is not a huge consideration, as i just want to buy one and be done and i will try all i can between here and there, but still would like some personal experiences. 

 

Also, unless something better comes along it will have to be sro compatible 

 

Thanks

[BadShot]

I tried a legion and a CZ shadow 2.  The CZ fit me much better and I like the trigger much better, too.  The DA/DA was not a biggie to me.  You somehow have to try each to make a decision.  It really depends on what you like.  I went with an RTS2.  I have them on all of my other guns.

[Boomstick303]

19 minutes ago, RJH said:

Striker or da/sa, steel or plastic. So for those of you who switched to a legion or from a legion, what did you come from and why do you like the legion better and if you went to something else from a legion, why and what?

 

I currently have a fleet of X5 Legions for shooting USPSA.  They are more than up to the job after I did some extensive load evaluation and the gun became pretty accurate.  With that said I went with Sig P320 platform because I was familiar with it and at the time there was a weight limit in Carry Optics.  Right after the X5 Legion was released USPSA upped the weight limit to a position where just about any gun will work in Carry Optics.  If the weight limit had been what it is today, and the CZ Shadow 2s were available Carry Optics ready I would have went that route. 

 

For me its down to these two guns.  Walthers are fine guns but I find the grip too short for my liking on the metal framed version, and Canik's can be good guns but do require changing various springs to make them run reliably.  Granted I have not owned a Canik, but I have seen enough and forums, seen enough malfunctions in person during competitions and talked to enough people for the prior statement to hold some weight.

 

I would shoot any gun you are interested in before buying anything.  If you have something to shoot at a USPSA match I would and ask others to shoot their blasters.  Most will let you to help you understand what fits and what does not fit in your hand.  Or go to local ranges that rent guns out and try to shoot them there.  

 

If I started today it would be with CZ Shadow 2s.  After a couple more seasons on the X5 Legion platforms, my plan is to go over to Shadow 2s, unless something better comes along, and I still have a strong fire to compete in USPSA.  I like the fact you can change out grips to get the gun more of a custom fit, and I like the tighter tolerances on the CZ guns over plastic, or TXG grip modules.  After all there is only so much you can do to those grips, and the lock up on plastic guns will never rival that of a metal framed gun like a CZ.  Just my humble opinion.

 

Best of luck on your decision.

[Zerofade]

Laugo Arms Alien

 

or Phoenix Redback Carry Optic - This one comes ready to accept the SRO you mentioned.  I competed with this pistol this season.  It is a real nice gun.

[RJH]

21 minutes ago, Zerofade said:

Laugo Arms Alien

 

or Phoenix Redback Carry Optic - This one comes ready to accept the SRO you mentioned.  I competed with this pistol this season.  It is a real nice gun.

 

 

I said price is not a huge consideration,  not the sky is the limit lol. While nice pistols, those are both more than i am looking to spend. For that money i would buy an open gun. Also would rather keep it mainstream type blasters, not something that has a decent chance of going away and not being able to find parts and such in a few years.

 

But thanks for helping narrow the field

[jcc7x7]

I went Tanfo then to Sig x-5's Now x-5's with TXG grips so legion ish!!!

I like the Tanfo's and do a lot of gunsmithing work for people but didn't want to keep smithing my own gun.

So the Sig's were an easy button for me. Buy it put the gray guns kit in and a guide rod.  Shoot it for how

ever long you want.  No tweaking continually etc just shoot it and it works and runs.

 

If you're a tinkerer! Get a Tanfo.  IF you're I just want to reload and shoot get the legion.

Either will do you fine.

CZ's are great but small for me and my hand size. Again CZ is a tinkerers gun.

FWIW

 

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I have shot alot of the different options for carry optics and for now I am using the Sig P320X5 non legion with a legion grip. I also like the regular grip with the tungsten guide rod also. There will be more options to custom tune the parts in the next couple of months I think for the Sig. Next I will be trying a Glock 17 gen 5 MOS once it arrives. A handful of spares for the Glock will have you covered. Most guys I know with CZ's have two they take to the matches and spare parts. There are lots of great options but you will have to find what works for you. Do you like lightweight or heavyweight pistols and where do you like the weight in the hand or at the muzzle? Good luck on your search. Thanks, Eric

[RJH]

1 hour ago, Aircooled6racer said:

Hello:. Do you like lightweight or heavyweight pistols and where do you like the weight in the hand or at the muzzle? Good luck on your search. Thanks, Eric

 

Mid weight i guess. I like 1911s the best (for reference), and have an XDM i shoot in limited that i like fine.   In the XDM 40 i have a lead filled guide rod and that is about it for added weight.  I tried a frame weight on the XDM but didn't care for the weight out front and took it off.  I might be fine just going with an XDM, as i have shot them for years with no issue, but am curious if a different pistola would be markedly better for carry ops.  i figure it is all probably pretty much  a wash anyway

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello, the XD pistols are good if they fit your hand and you like the trigger. The good thing about alot of these pistols is you can add heavy guide rods and different spring rates to tune them easily. The higher bore axis of the Sig is a none issue as some will tell you. Another thing would be the bullet weight you like to shoot in 9mm. My Sig does not like 147's so I shoot 121-125 grain bullets but I also like that bullet weight for my other pistols and PCC's except for open which I like 115's. I prefer loads in the 131-134PF range also. Carry Optics is all about hitting alphas since it is scored minor. A little speed helps also. Hope this helps. Thanks,Eric

[AZ123456]

I've shot an X5 Legion in CO for a little over a year but recently switched to a Tanfo Stock Master. I chose the Tanfo over the Shadow 2 due to grip size as I have large hands. I find I shoot the Tanfo much more accurately and the index is more natural to me over the X5. As others have stated, try shooting the guns you're interested in buying if you can. Sounds like it's Shadow 2 vs X5 and both these guns are prevalent at most clubs so getting your hands on them shouldn't be too hard. 

Edited October 10, 2020 by AZ123456
Spelling

[rowdyb]

I liked the weight of the Legion but not its grip shape. I also disliked how far out its trigger broke. I also disliked you couldn't direct mount any Sig optic onto their gun. My mags held 23 rounds.

 

I liked the trigger kit from TTI in my gen5 G34 mos/fs. I liked all the gen5 changes. I did not like the mags. I did not like that gen5 speciific stuff still isn't as readily available as gens 3 and 4. The mos mounting plates/screws seemed tenuous. I was always worried something would break or shear.

 

I felt just meh about the aftermarket milling I had done to SP01 and Shadow 2 guns for CO. I now have the factory OR version of the Shadow 2 and definitely like it over an aftermarket job.

[B_RAD]

Not sure if the OP realizes that the canik has a longer grip than the Walther?

 

I’d say it’s as long if not a little longer than the Sig. 

 

I find these threads interesting now. I know I definitely asked this same question. All you’re gonna get in here is mostly recommendations of what people have chosen. There are several really good options out there now. I doubt you’ll find one that you love every single thing about. Just gonna have to choose one. At least for a while.  
 

 

[RJH]

27 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

Not sure if the OP realizes that the canik has a longer grip than the Walther?

 

I’d say it’s as long if not a little longer than the Sig. 

 

I find these threads interesting now. I know I definitely asked this same question. All you’re gonna get in here is mostly recommendations of what people have chosen. There are several really good options out there now. I doubt you’ll find one that you love every single thing about. Just gonna have to choose one. At least for a while.  
 

 

 

Did not realize that the canik had a longer grip than the walther,i thought they were pretty much identical,  i will check them out too.

 

 

And yeah, I know i will just have to try out a bunch of guns and see what i like, i am mainly searching for ones i am not thinking about,  if that makes sense.  Like the canik, i had written it off because of grip length,  but i found out that it is probably not an issue:-)

 

I will probably never get past A class anyway,  so as long as it is reliable and reasonably accurate it probably doesn't  matter what I pick lol

[Chutist]

I have a Gen 5 M17 MOS and Sig X5 Legion, I've owned CZ's in the past.

I spent 25 years with Glocks for work and have won club matches with a G35 in limited (a long time ago...).  The X5 pointed better for me with the optic, so I went with it.   I also like the weight of it.  My favorite guns are 2011's, the Sig is now a close second.

 

Buy the one that feels and NATURALLY points best for you!

 

You are a couple of hours from me, but if you want to meet up for a practice day at Triple C, or some range in the middle of us?  You are welcome to try my Sig X5 Legion with Romeo Max and the Glock 17 with a Vortex.   

[B_RAD]

5 hours ago, RJH said:

 

Did not realize that the canik had a longer grip than the walther,i thought they were pretty much identical,  i will check them out too.

 

 

And yeah, I know i will just have to try out a bunch of guns and see what i like, i am mainly searching for ones i am not thinking about,  if that makes sense.  Like the canik, i had written it off because of grip length,  but i found out that it is probably not an issue:-)

 

I will probably never get past A class anyway,  so as long as it is reliable and reasonably accurate it probably doesn't  matter what I pick lol

I can promise you, getting past A has nothing to do with the gun. 
 

 

[RJH]

54 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

I can promise you, getting past A has nothing to do with the gun. 
 

 

 

Right, I was just meaning that I will not put in the effort to get above A class.   I made A in SS a while back and that was all the effort i was willing to do, and even that along with running a range for a bit burned me out for a while.  I am really just looking for a gun that in a few months i won't be wishing  i bought something else  And looking for ideas about some solid performers to look at, as I haven't productioned in a while and the local production field is nonexistent and there are only a few carry ops now, but CO is growing here, just like everywhere  else

[Shooter212]

I shot a bunch of guns over the summer looking for one for carry optics. The canik won me over. Super accurate best trigger, I don’t mind the take up and the freedom Smith makes it even better. If you want it a little heavier you can add brass back strap tungsten guide rod. Mine ran right out of the box it was over sprung but it ran. 

[OPENB]

If you find picking the gun is a chore, wait til you think about the optic. Whew!

[Bakerjd]

My girlfriend shoots a sig 320 legion and loves it. I am having patriot defense do a trigger job and open up the optic cut on a Tanfo stock 2 OR so I can direct mount a RTS2 on it. Tried a shadow 2 a while ago and just didnt like it. And dont personally like the sig trigger. I think it's a personal preference thing as with any gun. 

[Uomu]

I don't like Sigs, but I could recommend you Shadow 2 OR or G17 Gen 5 FS MOS. For the same IPSC drills, I'm a just a liitle faster with Cz over Glock

[BillChunn]

Ventured into CO several years ago from Open division.  Had a CZ built by Angus Hobdell at CZ Custom but the grip angle just wasn't for me and sold it.  After 4 years, decided to give CO another try.  Several local shooters let me shoot their guns which included a Tanfoglio Stock 2, Glock 34, Sig P320 X5 and finally the Sig P320 Legion.  As for the Sig's trigger, the stock trigger was no where near where it needed to be.  At almost 5 pounds and a lengthy amount of travel, it soured me on the P320 platform.  Coming from Open division and a 16 ounce trigger done by Doug Jones of Acc-U-Rail, the P320 trigger travel seemed like a mile, the wall was mushy and the break was a bit shabby. 

 

But there are solutions already out there.  Gray Guns has 2 different kits, Apex, Armory Craft and Keres all make replacement triggers.  The Sig Armorer also has two different trigger jobs available and can install almost anything you send to him.  Started the hunt for the Legion in August and now five months later, have a primary and backup.  

 

As already stated, almost every post in this thread talks about what they chose, including this one.  Shoot everything you can get your hands on, then decide.  You wouldn't buy a car without a test drive.  Why would you decide to buy a gun without shooting it?

 

Best of luck in your decision.

 

BC

[jofrizze]

On 10/9/2020 at 10:12 PM, rowdyb said:

I liked the weight of the Legion but not its grip shape. I also disliked how far out its trigger broke. I also disliked you couldn't direct mount any Sig optic onto their gun. My mags held 23 rounds.

 

I liked the trigger kit from TTI in my gen5 G34 mos/fs. I liked all the gen5 changes. I did not like the mags. I did not like that gen5 speciific stuff still isn't as readily available as gens 3 and 4. The mos mounting plates/screws seemed tenuous. I was always worried something would break or shear.

 

I felt just meh about the aftermarket milling I had done to SP01 and Shadow 2 guns for CO. I now have the factory OR version of the Shadow 2 and definitely like it over an aftermarket job.

Rowdyb, so of all the guns you've competed in CO would you say CZ Shadow 2 OR version is your favorite?  I've been competing with a CZ P10F with SRO as I wanted to make sure that CO was something I enjoyed.  I'm hooked and I'm ready to shoot something with some weight.  Legion seems like a solid choice.  I've shot one and it was a step up from the CZ P10F but ultimately the CZ Shadow 2 feels right.  Is the OR version the best place to start?  

[Lior]

Hand fit is critical for high speed precision shooting. The Shadow 2 gives you lots of 3rd party grip (and trigger and spring) choices. With the X5 Legion you can use Sig frame modules of various sizes and of course improve the trigger. Whatever fits your hands better. With the Sig you only need to learn one trigger pull.

[rowdyb]

This is why the 320 axg pro is such an interesting gun to me. Heavier than plastic but not above 40oz like the big boys. Aluminum frame w grip panels. And striker fired. Oh and optic cut already.

 

The shadow 2 OR works for me because of my years of familiarity w the platform. The x5 legion didn't mostly because of the grip shape and I didn't want to do a grip job. The second reason was learning the new trigger, which I didn't devote enough time to. My legions were fast and reliable but my interface with them wasn't as seamless as I wanted, so I stayed with a more known entity for myself. 

[dogtired]

I have a Shadow 2 milled with CZC optics plate.  I tried the Sig Legion and liked it a lot but it did not do anything the CZ could do, so I moved it.  Another option is the CZ P10 OR in the f or c version.  Easy sticker price, great ergos, lighter (if you like that).  I have one as a 3gun open gun.