Why expect shooters to teardown stages for FREE after they've PAID to participate in a match?

[CuriousNewbie]

Some matches in my area give registration fee DISCOUNTS for those who setup stages.  Others don't.

 

Either way, they all expect shooters to teardown stages after the match... for FREE!  Why? 

 

I don't PAY to see a movie at the theater, then cleanup popcorn afterwards.  I don't PAY to attend a sporting event, then teardown the concessions stands.  I don't PAY to eat at a restaurant, then mop the floors and put the chairs on top of the tables.

 

If I PAY a fee and you don't use that money to PAY someone to setup and/or teardown, it's not my responsibility/ obligation to do it for FREE.

 

If the match is FREE, I will setup and teardown each and every stage.  If I am given a registration DISCOUNT to teardown, then I will do it.  But PAY to shoot, then teardown for FREE (especially when those who setup received a DISCOUNT)... NO. 

 

Do you have a compelling argument?

 

Edited September 26, 2020 by CuriousNewbie

[Intheshaw1]

I mean, they could just stop holding matches. Or double the fees if you don't tear down....

 

These matches are run by volunteers who get paid nothing, stop complaining about helping or go and only shoot majors where you're not expected to help but the fees are significantly more.

[aandabooks]

16 minutes ago, Intheshaw1 said:

I mean, they could just stop holding matches. Or double the fees if you don't tear down....

 

These matches are run by volunteers who get paid nothing, stop complaining about helping or go and only shoot majors where you're not expected to help but the fees are significantly more.

Exactly.  It is a courtesy to the staff that put on the match and gives a place for competitors to compete.  If some people that just want to show up and shoot then go home knew how many hours a couple people for a local match actually puts into holding monthly locals they would shut their mouths and tear down the stage then thank the staff for giving them a place to shoot for the princely sum of $15-25 for a 6-7 stage match.

 

The clubs I mainly shoot at all offer discounts for setup crew and then tear down is the responsibility of each squad on the stage they finish on.  If we had a bunch of people that refused to help with teardown then we would just double the match fee and give a discount for tearing down.  Eventually if the local staff is not getting enough help then the match will simply go away.

[phoenixsomd]

The fees a shooter pays at a local match normally covers just the cost of the materials used, classifier fees to USPSA and some minor set aside to sustain/replace steel or other equipment.

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[RadarTech]

I know a range that does setup and tear down with no need for volunteers to do either..
 

and people complain about $40 match fees....

 

[cjmill87]

Well that’s one way to introduce yourself here.  
 

I’d say if you didn’t have the decency to help your squad tear down a stage for what, maybe 15-20 minutes after shooting (and that’s being conservative), then you should probably find a different hobby.  I’m sure if you expressed that opinion to the range staff, they’d tell you thanks for showing up but we don’t need your match fee.  As others have said, the match fee in no way represents the work needed to put on the match.  

[RadarTech]

I meant to add more — if you want to do nothing the price will go up.. 

 

most locals have minimal cost offset by volunteers.. and free labor.. 

no one is making a living at holding matches alone.... only if they offset all matches with extra training etc can they make money... 

 

I’m sorry but I have to ask—

do you do any of the following :

1. Paste and reset

2. Run the timer

3. Run the tablet

4. Carry your own bag stage to stage.

5. Have someone else paste and reset for you 

6. Sit in the shade and watch everyone else paste and reset.

 

 

of this list if too many don’t do 1-3 and always do 5-6– the sport will die....

 

 

[RadarTech]

1 minute ago, cjmill87 said:

Well that’s one way to introduce yourself here.  
 

I’d say if you didn’t have the decency to help your squad tear down a stage for what, maybe 15-20 minutes after shooting (and that’s being conservative), then you should probably find a different hobby.  I’m sure if you expressed that opinion to the range staff, they’d tell you thanks for showing up but we don’t need your match fee.  As others have said, the match fee in no way represents the work needed to put on the match.  

Amen—-

and I would add... the shoot and scoot folks get a reputation. And people will heckle you sooner or later.... 

[Diver123]

Because if you dont i guarantee to loose your registration every time you sign up for my match. 

[slowhands]

1 hour ago, CuriousNewbie said:

Some matches in my area give registration fee DISCOUNTS for those who setup stages.  Others don't.

 

Either way, they all expect shooters to teardown stages after the match... for FREE!  Why? 

 

I don't PAY to see a movie at the theater, then cleanup popcorn afterwards.  I don't PAY to attend a sporting event, then teardown the concessions stands.  I don't PAY to eat at a restaurant, then mop the floors and put the chairs on top of the tables.

 

I don't know about where you shoot, but at my club the money goes to paying for the use of range, supplies, and USPSA fees. Nobody's making a profit off of it. This is a volunteer sport. A lot of people work hard, for free, to put on a match and you're complaining you have to carry some props back to the shed?

[Derrick-508]

This attitude will get you noticed and not in the way you want.


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[Boomstick303]

All hobbies/sports have some decorum that participants follow. All hobbies/sports have unwritten rules and expectations you must meet to be considered part and participate in the hobby/sport.  Why do you behave in a certain manner for many of the things you do when you participate in other hobbies/sports?  No one is getting paid to put on local events.  Clubs typically have boards that volunteer a lot of their personal time to make matches posssible. Without the clubs and their board members who would hold matches?  Part of the expectation for these clubs and board members to keep putting on matches is shooters volunteering a few moments of their personal time to tear down and to help keep match fees reasonable. Otherwise clubs and board members would burn out and quit, and then again who would hold matches. 

 

If you don’t like this system, don’t participate. No one is making you sign up and shoot a match. If you think there is a better way to run a club, please start one and adjust your fees accordingly so participants don’t have to “tear down” without getting paid. We can then see if that system is viable. 

 

Typically, when starting any new adventure, hobby, or sport, I go with the flow and understand how stuff works.  I mean have a deep understanding.  If I see a way things can work better by marking a suggestion only after I know how stuff works will I make any comments. 

 

 

[SGT_Schultz]

2 hours ago, CuriousNewbie said:

Some matches in my area give registration fee DISCOUNTS for those who setup stages.  Others don't.

 

Either way, they all expect shooters to teardown stages after the match... for FREE!  Why? 

 

I don't PAY to see a movie at the theater, then cleanup popcorn afterwards.  I don't PAY to attend a sporting event, then teardown the concessions stands.  I don't PAY to eat at a restaurant, then mop the floors and put the chairs on top of the tables.

 

If I PAY a fee and you don't use that money to PAY someone to setup and/or teardown, it's not my responsibility/ obligation to do it for FREE.

 

If the match is FREE, I will setup and teardown each and every stage.  If I am given a registration DISCOUNT to teardown, then I will do it.  But PAY to shoot, then teardown for FREE (especially when those who setup received a DISCOUNT)... NO. 

 

Do you have a compelling argument?

 

 

This is not the sport you're looking for.

 

Sporting Clays might be more your speed.  You show up, pay, shoot, and do absolutely nothing to help run the match.  But be ready to pay $60 - $100 for a 100 target LOCAL tournament plus ammo.  The entry fee for their equivalents to our major matches will run you in the several hundred dollars.

Edited September 26, 2020 by SGT_Schultz

[toothandnail]

I agree with you OP, at my range, you show up, shoot, leave, no stage building, no tear down.
Shot a Multi gun a while back, every stage we were expected to pickup shotgun hulls, and everything but brass - which we did. Our last stage, NONE of the previous 9 squads picked up anything.
Since we were the last squad they wanted us to clean the stage and tear down.
NOPE . 
That was the RO's job to keep a clean stage, not up to the last squad to clean up every bodies mess for 2 days

[Umbrarian]

Jeez

 

His question was why does setup get discounted match fee but not teardown?

 

It is a legitimate question I will take a stab:

 

Setup takes much, much longer to perform than a tear down.

[Tom Freeman]

I do not have any type of compelling reason for you to help with the match much-less give any of your time for free.

 

Best option is to contact match staff and tell them exactly how valuable your time is to you.  Politely explain to them that if they want you to help, you will require a discount.  I am sure they will be more than happy to adjust your match fee once they realize how important you are.

 

 

[Sarge]

38 minutes ago, Umbrarian said:

Jeez

It is a legitimate question

No it isn’t. He wouldn’t be welcome at the matches I attend if he asked the MD this question.

 

This is an all volunteer sport. Sounds like neither of you get that.

[Sprig]

This a a volunteer sport for the most part, at most local clubs . Without volunteers we have nothing . At least where i am at .

[Ming the Merciless]

11 minutes ago, Sarge said:

No it isn’t. He wouldn’t be welcome at the matches I attend if he asked the MD this question.

 

This is an all volunteer sport. Sounds like neither of you get that.

 

It is a legitimate question, just poorly phrased.  Several clubs local to me give discounts for helping to set up and a discount coupon for helping to tear down, valid at the next match.  The set up discount is 50% off the current match entry and the tear down coupon varies from 10 to 20% depending on the club and size of the match.

 

Why would asking a question make a person unwelcome at your matches?  Not everyone comes into the sport with the full historical knowledge of the sport and some have participated in other sports that are less volunteer oriented.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Ming the Merciless

[Sarge]

7 minutes ago, Ming the Merciless said:

 

It is a legitimate question, just poorly phrased.  Several clubs local to me give discounts for helping to set up and a discount coupon for helping to tear down, valid at the next match.  The set up discount is 50% off the current match entry and the tear down coupon varies from 10 to 20% depending on the club and size of the match.

 

Why would asking a question make a person unwelcome at your matches?  Not everyone comes into the sport with the full historical knowledge of the sport and some have participated in other sports that are less volunteer oriented.

All of our local matches include in the shooter's meeting to tear down your stage and at the very least stack it so it can be picked up and put away. So after hearing that briefing somebody asks "why" they would certainly not be welcome

[Ming the Merciless]

3 minutes ago, Sarge said:

All of our local matches include in the shooter's meeting to tear down your stage and at the very least stack it so it can be picked up and put away. So after hearing that briefing somebody asks "why" they would certainly not be welcome

 

WOW!  Nice attitude, don't question muh authoraty!

 

 

 

[Sarge]

1 minute ago, Ming the Merciless said:

 

WOW!  Nice attitude, don't question muh authoraty!

 

 

 

Funny but I'm not in charge of jack s#!t these days. I'm just a guy that gets that it's a volunteer sport and I do plenty to help. And I get pissed when the usual shoot and scoot types do their thing.

[Rnlinebacker]

Some matches in my area give registration fee DISCOUNTS for those who setup stages.  Others don't.
 
Either way, they all expect shooters to teardown stages after the match... for FREE!  Why? 
 
I don't PAY to see a movie at the theater, then cleanup popcorn afterwards.  I don't PAY to attend a sporting event, then teardown the concessions stands.  I don't PAY to eat at a restaurant, then mop the floors and put the chairs on top of the tables.
 
If I PAY a fee and you don't use that money to PAY someone to setup and/or teardown, it's not my responsibility/ obligation to do it for FREE.
 
If the match is FREE, I will setup and teardown each and every stage.  If I am given a registration DISCOUNT to teardown, then I will do it.  But PAY to shoot, then teardown for FREE (especially when those who setup received a DISCOUNT)... NO. 
 
Do you have a compelling argument?
 

I suggest testosterone injections or blue pills [emoji1787]

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[-JCN-]

4 hours ago, CuriousNewbie said:

Some matches in my area give registration fee DISCOUNTS for those who setup stages.  Others don't.

 

Either way, they all expect shooters to teardown stages after the match... for FREE!  Why? 

 

I don't PAY to see a movie at the theater, then cleanup popcorn afterwards.  I don't PAY to attend a sporting event, then teardown the concessions stands.  I don't PAY to eat at a restaurant, then mop the floors and put the chairs on top of the tables.

 

If I PAY a fee and you don't use that money to PAY someone to setup and/or teardown, it's not my responsibility/ obligation to do it for FREE.

 

If the match is FREE, I will setup and teardown each and every stage.  If I am given a registration DISCOUNT to teardown, then I will do it.  But PAY to shoot, then teardown for FREE (especially when those who setup received a DISCOUNT)... NO. 

 

Do you have a compelling argument?

 

You can just think of it this way:

Match costs $50. 
You get $10 discount if you set up. 
You get $25 discount if you tear down. 
 

For people’s convenience they already credited you the $25 for tear down, but feel free to refuse the credit back and give the money to someone else on your squad to do the 10 min of tear down you don’t want to. 

[Ming the Merciless]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

Funny but I'm not in charge of jack s#!t these days. I'm just a guy that gets that it's a volunteer sport and I do plenty to help. And I get pissed when the usual shoot and scoot types do their thing.

 

You forgot to say "And stay off my lawn!"

 

I didn't get the impression the OP was a 'shoot and scoot' type, but I guess it is just politically incorrect to ask a question about why or why not.