Why expect shooters to teardown stages for FREE after they've PAID to participate in a match?

[NETim]

28 minutes ago, slowhands said:

 

At our L1 matches, the ROs are shooting too. Often I'm on a squad with only one other RO, and so I get a quick break when I'm on deck, load my mags as fast as I can after I shoot, and otherwise I'm running the timer or at least the tablet the rest of the time. It's a lot of work. Now it's supposed to be my job to police brass and do all the tear down too? No way. Help out or stay home.

 

L2+ matches are a different story, since set up and tear down can take full or multiple days, but the fees are higher and there are perks for the ROs and staff.

+1  And I act as MD at our club matches, so I get to do all kinds of behind the scenes stuff as well.    I'm not complaining.  The club is 10 minutes from my home and we get to have USPSA matches.  

 

I'm happy.

 

Seriously though, I consider it good etiquette to help with setup and tear down.  

[shred]

Difference between eating at a fast food place and a restaurant.

 

You PAY for the food both times, but in the fast food place they expect you to carry your food to the table for FREE and clean up again later for FREE.  OMG! 

 

It's a wonder those places stay in business.

 

[Gunsnjeeps]

At High Power Rifle Matches you set up the pits(targets), pull pits, score targets,  and tear down the pits.  In Bull's Eye matches you make target frames, hang targets, and score targets.  If you don’t want to do the work, don't shoot the match.

[toothandnail]

2 hours ago, slowhands said:

 

At our L1 matches, the ROs are shooting too. Often I'm on a squad with only one other RO, and so I get a quick break when I'm on deck, load my mags as fast as I can after I shoot, and otherwise I'm running the timer or at least the tablet the rest of the time. It's a lot of work. Now it's supposed to be my job to police brass and do all the tear down too? No way. Help out or stay home.

 

L2+ matches are a different story, since set up and tear down can take full or multiple days, but the fees are higher and there are perks for the ROs and staff.

Hope you read the WSB better than you did here.

 

[L3324temp]

Some matches in my area give registration fee DISCOUNTS for those who setup stages.  Others don't.
 
Either way, they all expect shooters to teardown stages after the match... for FREE!  Why? 
 
I don't PAY to see a movie at the theater, then cleanup popcorn afterwards.  I don't PAY to attend a sporting event, then teardown the concessions stands.  I don't PAY to eat at a restaurant, then mop the floors and put the chairs on top of the tables.
 
If I PAY a fee and you don't use that money to PAY someone to setup and/or teardown, it's not my responsibility/ obligation to do it for FREE.
 
If the match is FREE, I will setup and teardown each and every stage.  If I am given a registration DISCOUNT to teardown, then I will do it.  But PAY to shoot, then teardown for FREE (especially when those who setup received a DISCOUNT)... NO. 
 
Do you have a compelling argument?
 

So you are not asked to never come back?

Yes it happens to people with poor attitudes.


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[Joe4d]

Well benifit of the doubt, guy is just asking why ?

well simple economics. Remember, what one person gets for free another person pays for.
Locals tend to barely break even. If discounts were given for teardown, the match fees would go up for everyone else to cover match overhead.
Settup takes hours and actual work, day before or really early before,,, So to get the match off the ground MD's offer incentives that other shooters pay for. I imagine most are ok with that, as they like to shoot and dont want to get up early or come the day before.
Tear down happens when everyone is there, and usually a 5 minute task for most of the shooters.
My old club it was just tear down, and make 4 piles at rear of bay, steel, stands, stakes, barriers/props, one person took the trash and targets to the dumpster as they left.  Done in 5 minutes.
Match directors could easily pay to have that done, but fees would go up.  Gonna guess most shooters are ok with doing 5-10 minutes after the match rather than higher fees.
Match in HI, the MD, would be calculating scores, and have them out shortly after teardown. This was in the paper days.

[OPENB]

OP has one post, and this is it. I think he might be the Troll of the Year! 

[Kema]

Some local small matches have two entry fees

- 5 EUR, competitor commits to patch, help with stages and clean things up

- 20 EUR, you can sit on your ass

 

Works in both ways and makes clear what is expected from you.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Kema

[38super]

ROs' are volunteers, they are lucky to get a tee shirt at a big match.  ROs' enforce the 180 rule you can't duck fast enough.

[ima45dv8]

14 hours ago, L3324temp said:

So you are not asked to never come back?

Yes it happens to people with poor attitudes.
 

 

6 hours ago, OPENB said:

OP has one post, and this is it. I think he might be the Troll of the Year! 

 

It's my impression that the OP was NOT trolling, and very likely has already had someone at his home range try to explain to him the necessity to help out after the match (as most the responses have tried to do). The result was a serious case of butthurt which he drug over here looking for some sympathetic souls to say, "Yeah - you're right! It shouldn't be that way!"

 

And I'm equally sure he's disappointed that v-e-r-y few people here gave him a hug, and a backrub, and a cookie, and joined in expressing his sorrow over the onerous treatment he's been forced to suffer.

 

 My sympathy for this individual was exhausted after reading his initial post. Do the work.

[broadside72]

I guess I could just stop running matches and go shoot as a competitor on those weekend now. Plus save all the time during the month I would otherwise spend on practiscore management, approvals, match management, stages designs, recruiting volunteers, prop maintenance, etc. 

As stated already, setup takes way longer than tear down. The match fees are set for a reason. Range use fees, USPSA fees, targets, paint, tapes, staples and ice/water for each match. Then amortize prop maintenance, upgrades, etc. for metal targets/props, lumber, snow fence, target stands, stakes, staplers, stake hammer/bars, drill drivers and batteries, tablets, extra tablet batteries, walkie talkies, first aid supplies, printer ink, printer paper, website costs, ISP fees, insurance, should I go on?

And I don't get paid anything more than the occasional shout out/thanks/pat of the back after each match. 

And tear down is easy. Stack walls, pull stakes and put in a bucket, pull targets and sticks, stack fault lines and target stands. Then pick up brass, you can even keep it. It's not hard. A good squad can get even the largest stages cleared in 15-20 minutes.

[CHA-LEE]

The OP has not responded to any of the comments in this thread. I think all of you have been played since this thing is three pages in already and no response.

[Rnlinebacker]

Congrats to all the Triggerees being trolled by the andropausing OP [emoji1787][emoji1787]

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[NETim]

Apparently it's a sensitive subject.  Maybe because too many of us see too many "Shoot and scoot" shooters?  

[broadside72]

1 minute ago, NETim said:

Apparently it's a sensitive subject.  Maybe because too many of us see too many "Shoot and scoot" shooters?  

 

This

[vluc]

A long time ago I was a shoot & scoot, about 20 years ago.  RM/MD at one club said if you can't give me the whole weekend I don't need you.

 

Fast forward a couple of years to changes in match directors across the section, they would take whatever you could give, and I jumped in and gave. setup, tear down, whatever.

 

The sport gave me so much, was the least I could do to return the favor.  The people I met, the friends I made and still have, what I learned about stage design and how to breakdown and shoot stages, priceless.  A few hours of my time for that sort of return?  Pardon my French but you have to be a f*#king idiot to look at that with a crooked eye.

[SGT_Schultz]

12 hours ago, Kema said:

Some local small matches have two entry fees

- 5 EUR, competitor commits to patch, help with stages and clean things up

- 20 EUR, you can sit on your ass

 

Works in both ways and makes clear what is expected from you.

 

Interesting

 

And pretty cheap too

[Malarky112]

I have NO problem at all helping tear down stages at local matches...

 

But what about a level 3 match?  That you paid $185 to enter?  That had RO's embedded instead of working the whole weekend?

[CuriousNewbie]

On 9/26/2020 at 5:23 PM, phoenixsomd said:

The fees a shooter pays at a local match normally covers just the cost of the materials used, classifier fees to USPSA and some minor set aside to sustain/replace steel or other equipment.

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Appreciate your response.

[CuriousNewbie]

On 9/26/2020 at 5:34 PM, RadarTech said:

I know a range that does setup and tear down with no need for volunteers to do either..
 

and people complain about $40 match fees....

 

 

Interesting

[CuriousNewbie]

On 9/26/2020 at 5:49 PM, RadarTech said:

I meant to add more — if you want to do nothing the price will go up.. 

 

most locals have minimal cost offset by volunteers.. and free labor.. 

no one is making a living at holding matches alone.... only if they offset all matches with extra training etc can they make money... 

 

I’m sorry but I have to ask—

do you do any of the following :

1. Paste and reset

2. Run the timer

3. Run the tablet

4. Carry your own bag stage to stage.

5. Have someone else paste and reset for you 

6. Sit in the shade and watch everyone else paste and reset.

 

 

of this list if too many don’t do 1-3 and always do 5-6– the sport will die....

 

 

 

Appreciate your response.

[CuriousNewbie]

On 9/26/2020 at 6:55 PM, SGT_Schultz said:

 

This is not the sport you're looking for.

 

Sporting Clays might be more your speed.  You show up, pay, shoot, and do absolutely nothing to help run the match.  But be ready to pay $60 - $100 for a 100 target LOCAL tournament plus ammo.  The entry fee for their equivalents to our major matches will run you in the several hundred dollars.

 

Thanks for the sporting clay info.

[CuriousNewbie]

On 9/26/2020 at 7:15 PM, toothandnail said:

I agree with you OP, at my range, you show up, shoot, leave, no stage building, no tear down.
Shot a Multi gun a while back, every stage we were expected to pickup shotgun hulls, and everything but brass - which we did. Our last stage, NONE of the previous 9 squads picked up anything.
Since we were the last squad they wanted us to clean the stage and tear down.
NOPE . 
That was the RO's job to keep a clean stage, not up to the last squad to clean up every bodies mess for 2 days

 

That's what I'd like to avoid.

[CuriousNewbie]

On 9/26/2020 at 7:19 PM, Umbrarian said:

Jeez

 

His question was why does setup get discounted match fee but not teardown?

 

It is a legitimate question I will take a stab:

 

Setup takes much, much longer to perform than a tear down.

 

Short.  Simple.  Makes sense.  I appreciate your response.

[CuriousNewbie]

On 9/26/2020 at 6:33 PM, Boomstick303 said:

All hobbies/sports have some decorum that participants follow. All hobbies/sports have unwritten rules and expectations you must meet to be considered part and participate in the hobby/sport.  Why do you behave in a certain manner for many of the things you do when you participate in other hobbies/sports?  No one is getting paid to put on local events.  Clubs typically have boards that volunteer a lot of their personal time to make matches posssible. Without the clubs and their board members who would hold matches?  Part of the expectation for these clubs and board members to keep putting on matches is shooters volunteering a few moments of their personal time to tear down and to help keep match fees reasonable. Otherwise clubs and board members would burn out and quit, and then again who would hold matches. 

 

If you don’t like this system, don’t participate. No one is making you sign up and shoot a match. If you think there is a better way to run a club, please start one and adjust your fees accordingly so participants don’t have to “tear down” without getting paid. We can then see if that system is viable. 

 

Typically, when starting any new adventure, hobby, or sport, I go with the flow and understand how stuff works.  I mean have a deep understanding.  If I see a way things can work better by marking a suggestion only after I know how stuff works will I make any comments. 

 

 

 

Appreciate your comments.