What's your best argument in favor of a PCC?

[Rob72]

6 hours ago, avastcosmicarena said:

Check this out. New chassis for the PC9 

 

Have you considered seeking counselling for this enabling behavior of yours...?

[mpeltier]

15 hours ago, ABQautoxer said:

One thing I don't get because I came into USPSA for PCC is the butt hurt. So many and I do mean many passive aggressive comments about rifles at a pistol match, magazine size, etc from people I've never met before but within two matches I realized the comments had little variety but just a lot of repetition. I have thick skin so I just ignore them as excuses for their performance but I wonder how many people find that to be a turn off or is it that much of a local phenomenon that only I deal with.

 

Good for you to ignore them. Before long the naysayers won't even be a footnote to the games. There have been times when many things have been frowned upon by those unwilling to embrace change. Drive on and enjoy the ride.

[gdboytyler]

PCC is great practice for my 5.56 AR15.  PCC is a better/funner training alternative to my ..22LR upper for cheap practice.

 

I score better with my Open gun compared to my PCC, but I do practice more with the Open gun.

 

For home defense, If I got time to go to my gun safe, I'm grabbing the 5.56 AR, NOT the PCC.  I've read reports that 55gr 5.56 has less chance of over-penetration after impacting drywall compared to 9mm.  Otherwise, it's the nightstand handgun.  If I actually have to use a gun for self defense, hearing damage will be the least of my worries.

 

At my local indoor match, the match director shoots a PCC so I haven't heard any PCC related whining.

[Sarge]

14 hours ago, ClangClang said:

 

For anyone who thinks that, they should look at the results from the OH State Championships this past weekend.  PCC didn't even make it into the top 10, with Open (and Bob f'ing Vogel shooting Limited) absolutely dominating. Heck, even Carry Optics beat PCC.

 

The top four there are immune to any advantage a PCC brings to the table. 

[Sarge]

15 hours ago, rowdyb said:

nah, it seems to be all over. I hear it every where I go. And I hardly shoot pcc but a few times a year.

Yeah it's everywhere. We still let out a huge sigh of relief when there are no PCC on our squad!

[gdboytyler]

9 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Yeah it's everywhere. We still let out a huge sigh of relief when there are no PCC on our squad!

 

If you’re the MD and you despise PCC’s, is there anything stopping you from saying no PCC’s allowed at your USPSA match?

[Bwillis]

23 minutes ago, Sarge said:

The top four there are immune to any advantage a PCC brings to the table. 

 

Try again max beat  vlieger by 4% at Magnus cup and was 2.16 percent off baker’s % . So far youre 0 for 2 in just this thread 

 

Pcc advantage what a joke, slower transitions, minor scoring, higher height over bore, Wider leans around corners. I’m curious at to what advantages pcc does have over open? Long shots is all I can think of I’ll give you that one. 

Edited June 6, 2019 by Bwillis

[IHAVEGAS]

27 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Yeah it's everywhere. We still let out a huge sigh of relief when there are no PCC on our squad!

 

I think this will fade. For a while it was a rules thing, and a malfunction delays thing, and a mouse fart gun reshoots thing. Seems like we now have somewhat stable and somewhat well understood rules and folks are figuring out how to make their guns make it through a match. The too quiet for a timer unless it is set so sensitive that it picks up open guns in the next bay thing is getting better also, but I'd love to see hq act to fix it (150 minimum power actor or similar). Requiring r.o.'s too be right on top of pcc guns with the timer is not a safe practice. 

[BartCarter]

1 hour ago, Bwillis said:

.... I’m curious at to what advantages pcc does have over open? Long shots is all I can think of I’ll give you that one. 

 

I think with red dots, that is no longer an advantage. 

 

The only advantage I can think of is the stability in holding the gun steady.

[gdboytyler]

28 minutes ago, BartCarter said:

 

I think with red dots, that is no longer an advantage. 

 

The only advantage I can think of is the stability in holding the gun steady.

 

When comparing my PCC and OPEN gun, I get faster splits and better accuracy with PCC.  PCC doesn’t have strong hand only.  PCC weak side is easier than weak hand only.  PCC first shot is faster than my draw.  I still score better with my OPEN gun mainly due to major scoring and quicker transitions.   

[Bifurcate]

After seeing all the salty old timers rabbling about PCC... Makes me want to run one even more.

 

So that's a slight advantage imo.

 

Quote

PCC is great practice for my 5.56 AR15.  PCC is a better/funner training alternative to my ..22LR upper for cheap practice.

 

In actuality this. But only if your 556 AR is set up like your PCC.

 

IMO that means ENDO / ARC mags.

[rowdyb]

Why I would/do shoot PCC instead of Open:

• making a minor load takes a little less work than a 9mm major load.
• 3 points of contact on the gun
• less blast and concussion in my face (#1  reason)
• capacity
• precisely because it isn't a pistol (#2 reason)
• less weight on my belt all day
• pcc gun is cheaper than open gun more often than not
• multiple sights, i have a c-more and a laser
• vague notion of cross training rifle caliber long gun skills

The two pics RRA AR9 with the Eotech is from 2014, long before PCC was even thought of. The pic with the drum mag is from 2017. I've only shot my MPX in idpa and steel challenge.

Edited June 6, 2019 by rowdyb

[2011BLDR]

17 hours ago, ClangClang said:

 

For anyone who thinks that, they should look at the results from the OH State Championships this past weekend.  PCC didn't even make it into the top 10, with Open (and Bob f'ing Vogel shooting Limited) absolutely dominating. Heck, even Carry Optics beat PCC.

 

all depends on the talent pool .. 2019 Northern Arizona Classic. Second most popular division. Highest limited was 13th ( current Single Stack world champion, Correct?) 

[Sarge]

5 hours ago, gdboytyler said:

 

If you’re the MD and you despise PCC’s, is there anything stopping you from saying no PCC’s allowed at your USPSA match?

Nope. Any gun can be excluded. That’s how we get away with locap and hicap Nationals.

[RJH]

2 hours ago, 2011BLDR said:

all depends on the talent pool .. 2019 Northern Arizona Classic. Second most popular division. Highest limited was 13th ( current Single Stack world champion, Correct?) 

 

The part i bolded is pretty interesting.  Around here we have some here and there shooters of pcc, but CO seems to be the division that is catching on, not so much PCC.  Limited still dominates here too though.. I really believe that in a few more years CO will be #2 nationwide behind limited and may eventually take #1.  Always figured pcc would be behind lim, CO, and open, but this makes me think it might pass open too, but i ain't ready to commit to that yet haha

[ABQautoxer]

From talking to locals a lot of people try PCC and realize it's not quite as easy as one might think compared to a pistol, results driven disappointment. They eventually go back to the pistol mechanics they are comfortable with so it makes sense for that crowd especially CO would be a likely division to try. I find CO very interesting myself but built my GF a Q5 SF for her to try it first and me keep working on my PCC and on occasion Limited.

Edited June 7, 2019 by ABQautoxer

[2011BLDR]

34 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

The part i bolded is pretty interesting.  Around here we have some here and there shooters of pcc, but CO seems to be the division that is catching on, not so much PCC.  Limited still dominates here too though.. I really believe that in a few more years CO will be #2 nationwide behind limited and may eventually take #1.  Always figured pcc would be behind lim, CO, and open, but this makes me think it might pass open too, but i ain't ready to commit to that yet haha

Been 3rd most popular around AZ for the last 18 mouths or so #3 at the Yuma Charity match,

and 2018 Area 2,  with Limited and Open flip flopping as  #1& #2. PCC a Solid #3... This was the first one that PCC was a solid #2  ... no doubt Open Limited and PCC are the top 3 divisions around the AZ matches..

Edited June 7, 2019 by 2011BLDR

[ChuckS]

This thread went personal. Closed...

[ChuckS]

Now that folks have had some time to cool off, we decided that this thread should be opened. But, let's review:

 

"What's your best argument in favor of a PCC?"

 

Note that the title says "in favor".  If you are not "in favor", please do not contribute to this thread. Any folks who do not follow this advice, will be dealt with individually.

 

Enjoy!

The Mods...

[jwestonmoss]

Hey guys, OP here.  Sorry this caused such a firestorm.  I've been reading all the replies but not jumping back in.  I guess I should have made my original question more clear.  With the knowledge that this forum is geared towards competitive shooting sports, my question is more about the practical value of a pistol caliber carbine in non-competitive uses.  I didn't really intend to stir up a controversy of PCC-class competition within practical shooting sports leagues.  I'd love to get into those leagues, but unfortunately most all of them operate matches while I'm at church on Sunday....but thats a topic for another time.

[DKorn]

26 minutes ago, jwestonmoss said:

Hey guys, OP here.  Sorry this caused such a firestorm.  I've been reading all the replies but not jumping back in.  I guess I should have made my original question more clear.  With the knowledge that this forum is geared towards competitive shooting sports, my question is more about the practical value of a pistol caliber carbine in non-competitive uses.  I didn't really intend to stir up a controversy of PCC-class competition within practical shooting sports leagues.  I'd love to get into those leagues, but unfortunately most all of them operate matches while I'm at church on Sunday....but thats a topic for another time.

 

From a non-competition standpoint:

-cheaper ammo than a .223/5.56 means you could use it as a training tool for rifle. 

-ability to shoot on steel closer than a regular rifle opens up some training drills you couldn’t normally do. 

-Quieter than a regular rifle so could be an option for home defense to not destroy your hearing as much I guess. If it’s an SBR or pistol+brace for ease of moving through hallways then that’s a bonus too. 

[ChuckS]

41 minutes ago, jwestonmoss said:

Hey guys, OP here.  Sorry this caused such a firestorm.  I've been reading all the replies but not jumping back in.  I guess I should have made my original question more clear.  With the knowledge that this forum is geared towards competitive shooting sports, my question is more about the practical value of a pistol caliber carbine in non-competitive uses.  I didn't really intend to stir up a controversy of PCC-class competition within practical shooting sports leagues.  I'd love to get into those leagues, but unfortunately most all of them operate matches while I'm at church on Sunday....but thats a topic for another time.

John,

Thanks for the explanation.  As you pointed out, this forum is about competition: (from the guidelines)

 

Intent
This Forum is for firearm, technique, and conceptual discussions pertaining to training and competition. (And various unrelated topics.) While the occasional defensive shooting post is not prohibited, in general, defensive shooting discussions or debates are discouraged. And please, no hunting or "killing animals" (of any kind) threads.

 

In this case, the discussion of qualities of PCC vs pistol is fairly agnostic and valuable. Let's try keep it on the competition side.

 

My POV: last year I shot all PCC matches except for one. I brought out my open gun for the last match of the year. By the third stage I found myself thinking "damn, this thing is loud!" (and that is with heavy muffs and plugs!). But, the PCC is still not quiet. I guess a can would help but it is not allowed in USPSA.

[ima45dv8]

1 hour ago, jwestonmoss said:

Sorry this caused such a firestorm. 

There's no need for you to apologize.

You didn't cause people to behave poorly; they did.

 

[Sarge]

5 hours ago, jwestonmoss said:

Hey guys, OP here.  Sorry this caused such a firestorm.  I've been reading all the replies but not jumping back in.  I guess I should have made my original question more clear.  With the knowledge that this forum is geared towards competitive shooting sports, my question is more about the practical value of a pistol caliber carbine in non-competitive uses.  I didn't really intend to stir up a controversy of PCC-class competition within practical shooting sports leagues.  I'd love to get into those leagues, but unfortunately most all of them operate matches while I'm at church on Sunday....but thats a topic for another time.

Then my original thought stands. They are a GREAT House gun. Quieter, less worry about killing neighbors, cheaper to stay in practice with. Full on 5.56 still has its uses but a PCC does too. I LOVE PCC, for home defense.

[Darqusoull13]

5 hours ago, ChuckS said:

John,

Thanks for the explanation.  As you pointed out, this forum is about competition: (from the guidelines)

 

Intent
This Forum is for firearm, technique, and conceptual discussions pertaining to training and competition. (And various unrelated topics.) While the occasional defensive shooting post is not prohibited, in general, defensive shooting discussions or debates are discouraged. And please, no hunting or "killing animals" (of any kind) threads.

 

In this case, the discussion of qualities of PCC vs pistol is fairly agnostic and valuable. Let's try keep it on the competition side.

 

My POV: last year I shot all PCC matches except for one. I brought out my open gun for the last match of the year. By the third stage I found myself thinking "damn, this thing is loud!" (and that is with heavy muffs and plugs!). But, the PCC is still not quiet. I guess a can would help but it is not allowed in USPSA.

Actually this last point is not entirely correct. Suppressors are technically allowed in USPSA Open division and have been used in matches previously. Unfortunately for the vast majority of shooters that WOULD like to use suppressors on PCC's NROI specifically forbid civilized shooting in PCC division. While the claim has been made this is due to the difficulty in recording suppressed PCC stage times, this makes no sense as any properly trained RO can easily catch the last shot via the action. We did it for years with suppressed PCC's and even with suppressed 22's. In practice the joy of shooting suppressed is unfortunately relegated to "Outlaw" style matches. Oddly poppers calibration does not exist in these magical places either. 

Regarding my argument in favor of a PCC, well, come shoot one. You will understand. Oh, and I'll let you shoot mine suppressed!