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MemphisMechanic

Reshoots for REF (Range Equip Failure)

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Posted (edited)

How bad does a prop / activator have to fail before you award a reshoot? I never realized how generous I am, it appears.

 

I caught this video of Hwansik Kim at Area 6, and I’m pretty floored that the RO didn’t yell STOP! before he even got back to the stomp pad.

 

His first hit on the pad had more than enough force, no question.

 

Some ROs, man... 🙄

 

 

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic

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How bad does a prop / activator have to fail before you award a reshoot? I never realized how generous I am, it appears.
 
I caught this video of Hwansik Kim at Area 6, and I’m pretty floored that the RO didn’t yell STOP! before he even got back to the stomp pad.
 
His first hit on the pad had more than enough force, no question.
 
Some ROs, man...
 
 
 
I shot that stage as well. if you didn't step on the right part of the stomp pad it wouldn't activate. They told us beforehand that if you just stopped and looked at them, they'd kindly do the same in return. I blame Manny for his stage design we didn't need three stomp pads. Now im not buying one lol

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Use a different stomp pad then, for such a major match. It’s not exactly a local rinky-dink match we’re talking about here.

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It is the shooters responsibility to operate the props. What if it was activated by a door, and the shooter did not pull it far enough?

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Use a different stomp pad then, for such a major match. It’s not exactly a local rinky-dink match we’re talking about here.
it was a bungie cord holding it. it may not have been connected properly. he may have trapped the hook of the cord with his foot. I don't like stages like that to be honest as it does nothing for the shooting. There's also nothing practical about it

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Not knowing anything other than what I see here I would have stopped him.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bighpmaa said:

It is the shooters responsibility to operate the props. What if it was activated by a door, and the shooter did not pull it far enough?

 

Inaccurate analogy.

 

How would you react if you had to open & close that door two or three times before the activator tripped, when it worked perfectly for someone you’re shooting against and gave them a 4 second advantage?

 

(It’s pretty clear he gave our metaphorical door more than enough shove.)

 

Props are only fair if they work identically for all competitors.

 

Edited by MemphisMechanic

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That’s a reshoot for me. Of course like you said I wouldn’t use it for a major. I don’t like when I design s stage that messes up at a level one no less

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Then the ones who operated it more effectively had a better hit factor than those who did not. Just as those who can shoot on the move might have an advantage on certain types of stages. 

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One year at Nationals in PASA, there was a door that opened and activated the stuff.  The CRO told every squad they need to fully open the door for it to work correctly.  No Reshoots were given for failure to activate the movers.  More than one shooter failed to properly activate the door, when the RO fully opened the door and the movers worked, the shooter did not like the stage score.

 

I have seen pressure pads require a very aggressive stomp for them to work-just reality.  

 

If there is a failure several times per squad, then I would definitely call an REF.  Usually the solution is to fix the pad or have a person who can set it correctly do it every time.  

 

Pretty much the same for every activator that is inconsistent.

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Seems like every year the Area matches try to outdo themselves with dumb things. Last couple years it was a3, and now a6 is in the lead.

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On 4/13/2019 at 10:01 PM, pjb45 said:

One year at Nationals in PASA, there was a door that opened and activated the stuff.  The CRO told every squad they need to fully open the door for it to work correctly.  No Reshoots were given for failure to activate the movers.  More than one shooter failed to properly activate the door, when the RO fully opened the door and the movers worked, the shooter did not like the stage score.

 

I have seen pressure pads require a very aggressive stomp for them to work-just reality.  

 

If there is a failure several times per squad, then I would definitely call an REF.  Usually the solution is to fix the pad or have a person who can set it correctly do it every time.  

 

Pretty much the same for every activator that is inconsistent.

I remember that as well, Paul. Very good shooter on our squad tanked the stage for that very reason. DNROI came and said “tough”. I always thought that one was about MAKING you listen to the RO’s stage briefing. He did indeed say you had to open the door ALL the way.

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It's a bs prop either it works the sam efor eveyone or it doesn't make the stage. Especially at an Area match. If you step on it it should activate, if not ref. NOt stand there and stomp on it 3 or 4 times.

 

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Watching the video again I don't see how he could have stepped on it any harder to activate the first time. Was every competitor given the opportunity to try each activator before shooting?

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, mike4045 said:

Was every competitor given the opportunity to try each activator before shooting?

Yes

Edited by bret

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On 4/13/2019 at 9:01 PM, pjb45 said:

One year at Nationals in PASA, there was a door that opened and activated the stuff.  The CRO told every squad they need to fully open the door for it to work correctly.  No Reshoots were given for failure to activate the movers.  More than one shooter failed to properly activate the door, when the RO fully opened the door and the movers worked, the shooter did not like the stage score.

 

To me, there is a significant difference between "You must open this door all the way" and "just keep stomping on this box until the magic happens."

 

In the door care----anyone can open it all the way, or not.  Opening it all the way would automatically work.  First time, every person.  No reshoot if the person doesn't open it all the way, because they didn't do what was required.

 

The stomp pad in the OP isn't like that at all---it is a straightforward stomp pad.  And it got stomped on, hard, multiple times, without working.  The problem wasn't that is wasn't stomped on hard enough, nor far enough.  It just wasn't working.  That's a REF, IMO, based on what I've seen so far.

 

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I shot this stage yesterday. If you stepped on the top of the pedal it would activate. If you stepped lower the range of motion would not be enough to pull the hinged support out from under the swinger. The RO was very clear in the briefing and shooters had plenty of time to try them out. The real challenge was if you had ballet dancer moves you could scoot right along and pick up some real time. Others like myself were concerned about tripping and were slower. Like any activated prop there was some variation depending on who set the activator at the swinger end but they were certainly much easier to reset than the traditional stomp pad. 

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If the WSB says “stomp pad x activates...” or “stepping on stomp pad x activates...” and you stepped on it all the way down, and it didn’t activate... that’s REF. If you barely tapped it, then that’s on you. Kind of like if you try to throw a mag at a more traditional stomp pad and it doesn’t work... that’s on you, not REF. 

 

For a door, if the WSB says “opening the door all the way activates” then you’re good to go. If it says “opening the door activates”, then in my opinion it should activate as soon as the door starts to open, or the WSB should be re-written to be more clear. 

 

In this case, it’s a pretty clear REF. Hwansik is pretty fast, but you can definitely tell that he pressed it all the way down and had a decent amount of weight on it. I would’ve stopped him while he was shooting the first swinger, before he moved back to stomp it again. 

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57 minutes ago, Thomas H said:

It got stomped on, hard, multiple times, without working.  The problem wasn't that is wasn't stomped on hard enough, nor far enough.  It just wasn't working.  That's a REF, IMO, based on what I've seen so far.

 

 

Exactly why I started this thread. 👍

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Funny how things change when it’s not a popper that activates something and now it’s a clear case of REF. 

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1 hour ago, DKorn said:

If the WSB says “stomp pad x activates...” or “stepping on stomp pad x activates...” and you stepped on it all the way down, and it didn’t activate... that’s REF. If you barely tapped it, then that’s on you. Kind of like if you try to throw a mag at a more traditional stomp pad and it doesn’t work... that’s on you, not REF. 

 

For a door, if the WSB says “opening the door all the way activates” then you’re good to go. If it says “opening the door activates”, then in my opinion it should activate as soon as the door starts to open, or the WSB should be re-written to be more clear. 

 

In this case, it’s a pretty clear REF. Hwansik is pretty fast, but you can definitely tell that he pressed it all the way down and had a decent amount of weight on it. I would’ve stopped him while he was shooting the first swinger, before he moved back to stomp it again. 

He stomped it a few times before it activated. Clearly ref.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, DKorn said:

I would’ve stopped him while he was shooting the first swinger, before he moved back to stomp it again. 

 

I could easily see an r.o. having his eyes on the gun or perhaps the shooters body blocking good view of the first stomp. The later retries, I do not know how you do not see that. Since it was a weirdo gimmick stage (not a fan) it would have made a lot of sense to have the scorekeeper focused on the activators and calling the reshoots and the r.o. focused on safe gun handling. 

 

 

 

Edited by IHAVEGAS

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It is a thread drift but maybe interesting.

 

At a local last month they had a swinging no shoot in front of a 6 plate rack.

 

As I saw it.

1. If you went 6 for 6 on the plates and had a full bullet diameter hit inside the lines on the no shoot - that would be a reshoot for r.e.f. .

2. Same but a partial hit on the no shoot. No reshoot plus the hit penalty.

3. One or more missed plates plus hit anywhere on the no shoot. R.O.would need to make the call if he felt confident he could score it correctly, else re-shoot. 

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