Reshoots for REF (Range Equip Failure)

[ATLDave]

17 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

I could easily see an r.o. having his eyes on the gun or perhaps the shooters body blocking good view of the first stomp. The later retries, I do not know how you do not see that. Since it was a weirdo gimmick stage (not a fan) it would have made a lot of sense to have the scorekeeper focused on the activators and calling the reshoots and the r.o. focused on safe gun handling. 

Yeah, that's what the scorekeeper-RO is supposed to be doing - watching the blind side (things the RO can't see because he's screened by the shooter's body, for example), watching the shooter's feet near fault lines, watching for spall from walls or barrels where there's a likelihood of the shooter putting one through hardcover, etc.  

[Thomas H]

1 hour ago, HoMiE said:

Funny how things change when it’s not a popper that activates something and now it’s a clear case of REF. 

 

How it is a change?  The good thing about a popper is that REF or not is clearly defined in the rulebook.

 

That doesn't stop a lot of people from whining without understanding, of course. 

 

In the OP's case, saying something like "if you don't stomp on it right, it is your fault" isn't really supported by the rules.

 

[motosapiens]

it sounds to me like it wasn't a case of the RO not seeing the problem. It sounds like they briefed everyone on how to atually activate the mechanism, and decided in advance that  not activiating it correctly would not be a reshoot.

[MemphisMechanic]

19 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

it sounds to me like it wasn't a case of the RO not seeing the problem. 

 

Correct.

 

Cumulatively or perhaps all one individual, the  RO / CRO / MD compose the problem here.

Edited April 15, 2019 by MemphisMechanic

[motosapiens]

19 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

Correct.

 

Cumulatively or perhaps all one individual, the  RO / CRO / MD compose the problem here.

 

or, playing the devil's advocate, the shooter rushed and didn't properly activate the mechanism they way he was showed?

[bret]

43 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

it sounds to me like it wasn't a case of the RO not seeing the problem. It sounds like they briefed everyone on how to atually activate the mechanism, and decided in advance that  not activiating it correctly would not be a reshoot.

Were you at Area 6?

Edited April 15, 2019 by bret

[motosapiens]

Just now, bret said:

Wet6e you at Area 6?

nope. I was strictly going on what I read posted here, which is why I said  'sounds like....'.

[bret]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

nope. I was strictly going on what I read posted here, which is why I said  'sounds like....'.

I was there, I shot the match, you had to stomp on them pretty good, it did look like he stomped it pretty good but hard to tell,

 

From what i saw, they always worked,  i was there all 4 days, i shot Thursday and took pictures all day, Friday Saturday and Sunday. 

 

Only REF I saw on that stage was Steve Sanders, a cable got hit and caused a swinger to activate early.

 

It was a neat stage.

[motosapiens]

5 minutes ago, bret said:

I was there, I shot the match, you had to stomp on them pretty good,

 

thanks for your input and clarification. I certainly can't judge based on the video, but clearly there were many skilled and experienced shooters and RO's there.

 

I remember seeing a famous-ish female shooter at A3 yanking on a rope that was supposed to reactivate some drop-turners if you missed them the first time. Problem was she was pulling the wrong direction because she didn't follow instructions or look at the mechanism to see how it worked. If you pulled the right direction, the pins popped right out and the drop-turners exposed again.

 

i lol'd out loud.

[bret]

The CRO of the stage was very clear on how to activate them, this wasn't a circus stage or a gotcha stage, there was none of that at this match.

 

But the video looks like he stomped it good enough,  but I wasn't there, I know I stomped them like I was texting and a car stopped in front of me. 

Edited April 15, 2019 by bret
Spelling correction

[Ssanders224]

Yea. 

I skipped a bullet off the ground when I shot the low target, and it activated one of the swingers.  Actually didn't hit the cable, but rather the "prop" that held the swinger.  

 

The stomp pads are interesting, and worked well for 99% of the shooters. HK got kinda screwed. His first "stomp" was sufficient, and unfortunately we will never know exactly why it didn't activate. The plight of the ROs, is that the pads did need to be COMPLETELY depressed to activate, so in real time it would be tough to know for sure whether there was an issue, or if someone just wasn't depressing them sufficiently.  HK's seems pretty obvious on the video, but in real time it's harder to tell. 

[CHA-LEE]

And.............. This is why you don't put poorly designed/constructed or inconsistent activators in your matches. People invest a significant amount of time and money to attend SHOOTING matches. Not lord of dance contests to see who gets lucky trying to trigger poorly designed/constructed activators. That same multi-swinger activator sequence could have been deployed in a much simpler manner that would be consistent and actually test shooting skills.

[bret]

45 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

And.............. This is why you don't put poorly designed/constructed or inconsistent activators in your matches. People invest a significant amount of time and money to attend SHOOTING matches. Not lord of dance contests to see who gets lucky trying to trigger poorly designed/constructed activators. That same multi-swinger activator sequence could have been deployed in a much simpler manner that would be consistent and actually test shooting skills.

They worked, probably less problems than popper activated swingers.

[Nathanb]

The problem is it becomes a judgement call so the one guy who stomps the piss out of it and it doesn’t go off as designed gets screwed. You can’t be subjective in these instances 

[IHAVEGAS]

13 hours ago, Nathanb said:

The problem is it becomes a judgement call so the one guy who stomps the piss out of it and it doesn’t go off as designed gets screwed. You can’t be subjective in these instances 

 

Well summarized, but I'm partial to:

 

14 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

Not lord of dance contests to see who gets lucky