Bamboo Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 20 hours ago, ChuckS said: About Balance : "1.1.3 Balance – Accuracy, Power and Speed are equivalent elements of USPSA shooting, and are expressed in the Latin words “Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas” (“DVC”). A properly balanced course of fire will depend largely upon the nature of the challenges presented therein, however, courses must be designed, and USPSA matches must be conducted in such a way, as to evaluate these elements equally." Understood and agree. But, I make the Vis decision before the match starts when I sign up and declare major or minor. After that all I can influence is my speed and accuracy with my chosen power factor. So, for me, VC is a valid test of my shooting skills and I believe a decently designed VC stage does satisfy the DVC balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mitch Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 I thought I read KEEP Virginia Count and voted yes. My mistake, but I cannot change my vote to "no". This poll feature sucks really really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 VC is dumb. Get rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 2 minutes ago, d_striker said: VC is dumb. Get rid of it. Could you elaborate? What's "dumb" about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviSS Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Personally, I like Virgina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 VC is dumb. Get rid of it.It's only dumb if it is not used properlySent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Virginia Count has its place in a match... and the poll suggests that most (87%) of poll participants agree with this assessment. A component of VC scoring that might warrant consideration for change is the miss penalty. Penalize extra shots and penalize extra hits... but don't penalize a miss! The penalty for a miss might be that you simply don't get any points added to your score for that shot. Think "Par shots" along the line of "Par" Time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 VC allows for increased round count which is always liked by shooters by using multiple strings. VC allows for stages that include accuracy with an element of speed. It is not VC that is the problem, IMO, but the design of reasonable stages that use VC scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) YES YES YES... KILL IT WITH FIRE ! VC is dumb. What conceivable scenario would have you wanting to limit the number of shots you fired, knowing that you had not yet neutralized the target? Ammo should be limited only by how much you have on the belt. I don't agree with everything IPSC does, but this is one area of the rules they got right. I suspect VC lives on in USPSA only because "invented here" and "Murica". Edited October 30, 2016 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimboslice Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I'm in the "Keep VC" camp. There's one club that I shoot at that is really new and doesn't have a ton of bays to setup a bunch of field courses. They instead have 3-4 field courses and then put a classifier and a VC/Standards stage in the smallest bay.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, StealthyBlagga said: YES YES YES... KILL IT WITH FIRE ! VC is dumb. What conceivable scenario would have you wanting to limit the number of shots you fired, knowing that you had not yet neutralized the target? Ammo should be limited only by how much you have on the belt. I don't agree with everything IPSC does, but this is one area of the rules they got right. I suspect VC lives on in USPSA only because "invented here" and "Murica". USPSA isn't really that "practical". If we were, we'd be a lot more cautious. Practical-type skills, yes, but our targets aren't shooting back. Edited October 30, 2016 by teros135 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 3 minutes ago, teros135 said: USPSA isn't really that "practical". If we were, we'd be a lot more cautious. Practical-type skills, yes, but our targets aren't shooting back. I'm glad of that ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okorpheus Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 On 10/28/2016 at 1:17 PM, ChuckS said: About Balance : "1.1.3 Balance – Accuracy, Power and Speed are equivalent elements of USPSA shooting, and are expressed in the Latin words “Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas” (“DVC”). A properly balanced course of fire will depend largely upon the nature of the challenges presented therein, however, courses must be designed, and USPSA matches must be conducted in such a way, as to evaluate these elements equally." The match has to be conducted in a way to evaluate them equally. That doesn't every individual stage does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWLAZS Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 I am not a fan. I hate leaving a called miss on a target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, AWLAZS said: I am not a fan. I hate leaving a called miss on a target. Perhaps that's one of the values of VC. It makes us accountable to ourselves for every shot, at least on the VC stage. "Can you count" (06-03) is another example of accountability. If you can't count (lose focus) and fire more or less shots, you get to be responsible and can't say "but I MEANT to shoot only five!" and get a reshoot. (I recently shot it at high B but forgot to turn my camera on, so I missed the opportunity to review my good performance. Can't get a reshoot (camera) there, but at least I have the memory.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 (edited) 11 hours ago, StealthyBlagga said: ... VC is dumb. What conceivable scenario would have you wanting to limit the number of shots you fired, knowing that you had not yet neutralized the target? ... Yes, getting used to VC could get one "killed in the streets" USPSA is not tactical firearms training. Heck, even though it purports to be, neither is IDPA. Edited October 30, 2016 by tanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronArcher Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 That's why it's not called USTSA.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWLAZS Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 3 hours ago, teros135 said: Perhaps that's one of the values of VC. It makes us accountable to ourselves for every shot, at least on the VC stage. "Can you count" (06-03) is another example of accountability. If you can't count (lose focus) and fire more or less shots, you get to be responsible and can't say "but I MEANT to shoot only five!" and get a reshoot. (I recently shot it at high B but forgot to turn my camera on, so I missed the opportunity to review my good performance. Can't get a reshoot (camera) there, but at least I have the memory.) If you can shoot 6 shots faster then 5 go for it. Otherwise you just ate some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distant Thunder Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 16 hours ago, teros135 said: USPSA isn't really that "practical". If we were, we'd be a lot more cautious. Practical-type skills, yes, but our targets aren't shooting back. But, if they were shooting back, wouldn't you rather limit how many shots they could fire at you? Hey, what's good for the goose ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 3 hours ago, AWLAZS said: If you can shoot 6 shots faster then 5 go for it. Otherwise you just ate some time. Plus penalties. 06-03 is a 5-shot per target VC classifier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersonj55126 Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Why did IPSC drop VC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterthefish Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Plus penalties. 06-03 is a 5-shot per target VC classifier. A lot of penalties too. Extra shot called from the line, extra hit on target. - 60 if you shot 6 on each of the 4 targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 On 10/28/2016 at 4:11 PM, Strick said: I think you missed my point. I don't have a problem with the extra shot/extra hit penalty. I have a little issue with giving me a miss penalty, on top of the loss of points, for a shot that you will penalize me for making up. If I can't make up a miss then I should not have to eat the extra -10 points. But it's not applied only to you, it's applied to everyone who shoots the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 No. Virginia Count is Speed and Accuracy. Not all stages are going to be spray and pray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 1 hour ago, andersonj55126 said: Why did IPSC drop VC? probably because they have a bunch of whiners. who cares? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now