GunBugBit Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 On 10/29/2016 at 8:50 PM, teros135 said: USPSA isn't really that "practical". If we were, we'd be a lot more cautious. Practical-type skills, yes, but our targets aren't shooting back. USPSA participants understand that we aren't specifically practicing realistic combat self defense. We are practicing shooting skills in a pretty pure way. Our sport is what it is, and what it is, is quite wonderful. We all have our pet peeves but on the whole, there is so much enrichment to be had from it. I don't think the shooting sports offer too many formats where the targets shoot back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 13 minutes ago, GunBugBit said: I don't think the shooting sports offer too many formats where the targets shoot back. there should be some that do shoot back, either a paintball gun, bottle rockets etc. spice it up, make it fun. I shot a steel stage upside down, on an inversion table this weekend, it was a great stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronArcher Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 2 hours ago, bret said: No. Virginia Count is Speed and Accuracy. Not all stages are going to be spray and pray. So then ALL stages should be VC? Speed AND accuracy right? Seems to me VC emphasizes accuracy at the expense of speed on top of the CoF already doing that. More bullseye shooting with reloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 52 minutes ago, IronArcher said: So then ALL stages should be VC? Speed AND accuracy right? Seems to me VC emphasizes accuracy at the expense of speed on top of the CoF already doing that. More bullseye shooting with reloads. never said all stages should be VC. 3 stages out of 22 at Nationals were VC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWLAZS Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 (edited) On 10/30/2016 at 5:29 PM, teros135 said: Plus penalties. 06-03 is a 5-shot per target VC classifier. I know that. I was pointing out that you would be penalized by the extra time for your shots. With VC you can be penalized 3 ways for on trigger press. Extra time, extra shot, extra hit. I don't see the point. I am not a fan of the multi string stages. We try to avoid them when the weather gets bad. Edited November 1, 2016 by AWLAZS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mont1120 Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Virginia count is really a great way to test accuracy, patience, and a real test of mental attention. I know I will get shot full of holes here, .........but having been to our last match of the year with quite a few number of PCC shooters, I see a trend to the spray and pray mentality. Certainly a lot of the Open shooters already smash as many rounds as they can in the mag, and blaze away. It seems to me the PCC crew is also engaged in triple taping two mags together to hold a gazillion rounds so they don't have to change mags. I really noticed on any steel targets the PCC and Open shooters tend to fire two-three rounds automatically in order to move on faster to the next target, sight acquisition be damned. This is NOT any sort of condemnation of either division, just an observation. To put everyone on the same level for at least one stage does provide a benchmark for who really can shoot. I admit the PCC is fun, its just not for me. Neither is Open, as I see changing mags and keeping count as the challenge I enjoy. To each his or her own. But at least for a single stage, we shall see................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 4 hours ago, mont1120 said: Virginia count is really a great way to test accuracy, patience, and a real test of mental attention. It seems to me the PCC crew is also engaged in triple taping two mags together to hold a gazillion rounds so they don't have to change mags. coupled mags are not allowed in PCC, if you see it happening the range officers aren't doing their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 On 10/31/2016 at 8:57 AM, bret said: there should be some that do shoot back, either a paintball gun, bottle rockets etc. spice it up, make it fun. I shot a steel stage upside down, on an inversion table this weekend, it was a great stage. If we as participants are firing real ammunition, paintballs and bottle rockets coming at us are no-go's because of safety concerns. Not breaking the 180 and keeping fingers out of trigger guards would be much harder after just getting hit in the face mask with a paintball, with more on the way. If one wants to play paintball, one can play paintball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 4 hours ago, mont1120 said: I know I will get shot full of holes here, .........but having been to our last match of the year with quite a few number of PCC shooters, I see a trend to the spray and pray mentality. Certainly a lot of the Open shooters already smash as many rounds as they can in the mag, and blaze away. I see this among all but the more disciplined Open shooters. But I keep my mouth shut, because, after all, they're having fun. And some day, it might be me doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 17 minutes ago, GunBugBit said: I see this among all but the more disciplined Open shooters. But I keep my mouth shut, because, after all, they're having fun. And some day, it might be me doing it. most open shooters I shoot with put 2 on paper unless they have a make up shot, sometimes 2 on an activator to speed things up. When shooting .38 super comp, it's about 40 cents everyone you pull the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 28 minutes ago, bret said: most open shooters I shoot with put 2 on paper unless they have a make up shot, sometimes 2 on an activator to speed things up. When shooting .38 super comp, it's about 40 cents everyone you pull the trigger. For me, 38 Super is about $160-$190 per thousand with reloaded cases, depending on powder and bullet used. As a reference point, 9mm minor is $125. Not too bad. BTW, most of the folks I shoot with don't "pound" targets in Open. That just costs more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamboo Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 ...and wastes time if you are getting good hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukhunt Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 For all practical purposes, lets have a match where 10 stages , 5 are comstock and 5 are virgina count . You have the best of both worlds. I think a 32 round COF that was virgina count would be a real challange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLDave Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) It would also likely be illegal: 9.2.3.2 Virginia Count must use paper targets exclusively, and must only be used for Standard Exercises, Classifiers, Speed Shoots, or Short Courses. And that's as it should be. USPSA is meant to generally be freestyle, and that's especially important in long courses. Virginia count removes competitor freedom to some extent, and is pretty incompatible with a long freestyle course. Edited November 2, 2016 by ATLDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 First take away power, then physical challenge, then shorten all the distances, now take away VC too. Pretty soon, we can get to where it is all close and fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 1 minute ago, MarkCO said: First take away power, then physical challenge, then shorten all the distances, now take away VC too. Pretty soon, we can get to where it is all close and fast. vc makes sense for scoring multiple strings. otherwise i prefer freestyle (even tho i shoot pretty much shoot like every stage is VC anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mont1120 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 On 11/1/2016 at 9:52 AM, bret said: coupled mags are not allowed in PCC, if you see it happening the range officers aren't doing their job. That was just a poke of fun at the PCC guys, they were all yapping about needing bigger mags so they would never have to change mags except for required reloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 19 hours ago, motosapiens said: vc makes sense for scoring multiple strings. otherwise i prefer freestyle (even tho i shoot pretty much shoot like every stage is VC anyways. you shoot SS Minor you have extra bullets, shooting SS Major is more like VC :-) ( shoot Revo and every stage IS VC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 hour ago, MikeBurgess said: you shoot SS Minor you have extra bullets, shooting SS Major is more like VC :-) ( shoot Revo and every stage IS VC) I shoot SS major as well, and yes, depending on stage design, it is very much like VC, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 no, but i'd be happy if they changed the name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasref Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 I would keep it as is. Not like a "C" shooter suddenly has a chance to win over "GM"s just because they have limited shots. For the Single Stack shooters it does present another challenge (maybe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayWord Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 They did change the name years ago. When I started it was called Limited Comstock. Limited number of shots, comstock scoring. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 On October 30, 2016 at 7:17 AM, AWLAZS said: I am not a fan. I hate leaving a called miss on a target. Then make it up. If you called a mike, then you should shoot an alpha and lower the penalty to a -5. I personally love VC, because all the whiners get all butt hurt when it exposes their weakness at the fundamentals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWLAZS Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 15 hours ago, Gooldylocks said: Then make it up. If you called a mike, then you should shoot an alpha and lower the penalty to a -5. I personally love VC, because all the whiners get all butt hurt when it exposes their weakness at the fundamentals. Hey good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie45 Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Like the verity. There are plenty of rules governing when it can or cannot be used. I.e. can't use if there is sTeel on the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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