ac4wordplay Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) Why?DNROI and his RMI's should be on EXACTLY the same page Unfortunately this isn't always the case. Edited February 6, 2016 by ac4wordplay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydoc Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 It is logical that if you can get a procedural or many for not being wholly inside the shooting area, if you are not wholly inside the shooting area you are outside of the shooting area.No, that is not logical. It's silly, in fact. You are asserting that only 2 states of being exist, either inside the shooting area or outside the shooting area. That is false, just like it would be for most other day-to-day situations. I disagree. I understand that you want to disagree -- but you're going to wait a very long time to shoot the stage, if you disagree with the RO. It's pretty simple really -- RO just won't start your run..... I said that 2 pages ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARRYJ Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 It is logical that if you can get a procedural or many for not being wholly inside the shooting area, if you are not wholly inside the shooting area you are outside of the shooting area.No, that is not logical. It's silly, in fact. You are asserting that only 2 states of being exist, either inside the shooting area or outside the shooting area. That is false, just like it would be for most other day-to-day situations. I disagree. I understand that you want to disagree -- but you're going to wait a very long time to shoot the stage, if you disagree with the RO. It's pretty simple really -- RO just won't start your run..... I said that 2 pages ago And I said it on page 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydoc Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 It is logical that if you can get a procedural or many for not being wholly inside the shooting area, if you are not wholly inside the shooting area you are outside of the shooting area.No, that is not logical. It's silly, in fact. You are asserting that only 2 states of being exist, either inside the shooting area or outside the shooting area. That is false, just like it would be for most other day-to-day situations. I disagree. I understand that you want to disagree -- but you're going to wait a very long time to shoot the stage, if you disagree with the RO. It's pretty simple really -- RO just won't start your run..... I said that 2 pages ago And I said it on page 1 And I agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 It is logical that if you can get a procedural or many for not being wholly inside the shooting area, if you are not wholly inside the shooting area you are outside of the shooting area.No, that is not logical. It's silly, in fact. You are asserting that only 2 states of being exist, either inside the shooting area or outside the shooting area. That is false, just like it would be for most other day-to-day situations. I disagree. I understand that you want to disagree -- but you're going to wait a very long time to shoot the stage, if you disagree with the RO. It's pretty simple really -- RO just won't start your run..... I said that 2 pages ago And I said it on page 1 As did I originally -- though Barry beat me to the punch..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydoc Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 And it still goes on for 5 pages !!! Some folk's just like to argue I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 And it still goes on for 5 pages !!! Some folk's just like to argue I guess. No they don't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZinZA Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 An argument is not the same as contradiction. .... https://youtu.be/kQFKtI6gn9Y Sent by Jedi mind control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Lord Gomer Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 It can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZinZA Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 No it can't Sent by Jedi mind control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Oh, you wanted an argument? this is insults. Arguments are down the hall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vixty Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 I had a similar case at the Florida state match. One of the wsb said start with gun laying on the x. Well being the gamers we are I layed the gun down so the very tip of the dust cover was touching the center of the x. The Ro wouldn't start me until the gun was perfectly centered. The start position was 2 feet back and where or not if I had to take a step or not depended on how my gun was on the table. Now I could have made a big deal about it because he wasn't making everyone start centered on the x and I felt he was trying to teach me a lesson for trying to game. I could have gotten the rm involved but decided it wasn't worth slowing down the match by waiting for him. What would yall have done? The difference was having to take a step to reach the gun or being able to just reach and pick it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 All of this is a perfect example of the CRO not taking control of their stage. Start every shooter the same and don't deviate. You are there for a reason. Man up and take charge. Gee whiz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsipd Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 The correct WSB would be "with both feet outside the shooting area" otherwise one foot in should be acceptable. Gaming the stage is not the issue, it is the WSB wording. Just my 2 cents from a newly appointed RO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 All of this is a perfect example of the CRO not taking control of their stage. Start every shooter the same and don't deviate. You are there for a reason. Man up and take charge. Gee whiz. It is also why I hate matches with self RO "Staff day." Every squad has at least 2 CRO's. Lots of room for inconsistency there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 All of this is a perfect example of the CRO not taking control of their stage. Start every shooter the same and don't deviate. You are there for a reason. Man up and take charge. Gee whiz. It is also why I hate matches with self RO "Staff day." Every squad has at least 2 CRO's. Lots of room for inconsistency there. Very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 The correct WSB would be "with both feet outside the shooting area" otherwise one foot in should be acceptable. Gaming the stage is not the issue, it is the WSB wording. Just my 2 cents from a newly appointed RO. Nope. One foot in is NOT 'outside the shooting area'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardbird Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Some folks are really confused about inside/outside the box/shooting area and faulting. Two completely different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsipd Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 The correct WSB would be "with both feet outside the shooting area" otherwise one foot in should be acceptable. Gaming the stage is not the issue, it is the WSB wording. Just my 2 cents from a newly appointed RO.Nope. One foot in is NOT 'outside the shooting area'. For my education as a new RO, which rule covers this situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) The correct WSB would be "with both feet outside the shooting area" otherwise one foot in should be acceptable. Gaming the stage is not the issue, it is the WSB wording. Just my 2 cents from a newly appointed RO.Nope. One foot in is NOT 'outside the shooting area'. For my education as a new RO, which rule covers this situation? As previously mentioned in this thread, there isn't really a rule that specifically states that 1 foot in and 1 foot out is not considered 'outside'. There doesn't have to be. It is common english usage, and there is no reason to believe that 'outside' means anything other than 'fully outside'. If you get thrown out of a bar, does the bouncer let you stand at the door with one foot over the threshold? Edited February 8, 2016 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revoman Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 The correct WSB would be "with both feet outside the shooting area" otherwise one foot in should be acceptable. Gaming the stage is not the issue, it is the WSB wording. Just my 2 cents from a newly appointed RO.Nope. One foot in is NOT 'outside the shooting area'.For my education as a new RO, which rule covers this situation? As previously mentioned in this thread, there isn't really a rule that specifically states that 1 foot in and 1 foot out is not considered 'outside'. There doesn't have to be. It is common english usage, and there is no reason to believe that 'outside' means anything other than 'fully outside'.If you get thrown out of a bar, does the bouncer let you stand at the door with one foot over the threshold? Now that is the best and funniest answer to the original question. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronArcher Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I'm a noob so feel free to ignore this: Perhaps it would be better stated FULLY out or FULLY in the shooting box. If not fully out to start, you get the penalty, if your not fully in when shooting you get the penalty. Wondering if there is a rule that says both feet must be on the ground... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsipd Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 My point was that a better written stage brief would remove all ambiguity and clearly state the intent. This was the point that Jay made in our RO seminar when we discussed the WSB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BARRYJ Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I can't believe there is that much disagreement at local club matches. This should be fun. If guys were always fussing about something, don't think I would continue shooting there. One foot in-one foot out, how much time could that save. And I'm not saying not to write a good stage briefing. Write it the best you can and lets go shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 My point was that a better written stage brief would remove all ambiguity and clearly state the intent. This was the point that Jay made in our RO seminar when we discussed the WSB. You're right -- the best practice would be to bullet proof the WSB so it's crystal clear to everyone...... On the other hand, if the WSB simply says "outside" the CRO is not wrong for insisting that you start with both feet outside of the shooting area -- as long as he and his staff are constantly enforcing that standard for all competitors..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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