Southpaw Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 PCC http://freedomordnance.com/product/fm-9-9mm-belt-fed-ar-15m-16-upper-receiver-black-friday-stock/ Would be pretty slow on stages with mandatory reloads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowryWeaponsSystems Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) Any particular reason for not being able to cheek it? Edited March 22, 2016 by LowryWeaponsSystems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 The provisional rules we've seen so far say it has to be shoulder fired. I don't think anyone wants to volunteer to be the test case for the first prosecution of a pistol being fired as a rifle, or whatever ATFE is calling it. Cheeking it won't be allowed by rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 It does not matter. Add PCC or not, it will still be USPSA. Those that like USPSA will still do so. Those that don't won't. It will certainly not change the culture at matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash74 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 opinions on bracing off the cheek with a sig brace?? Looks shoulder fired to me. Even if it wasnt touching the shoulder. The ATF has ruled that the SIG brace is legal if used as intended. Meaning stick your arm through brace and use it as intended. "Cheeking" an arm brace is not using it as intended. Pony up your $200 if you want a SBR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwithnoname Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 The ATF has ruled it is illegal to get an AR pistol and put a SIG brace on it to by pass the NFA laws. How a firearm is used doesn't change the legal status of a firearm. It doesn't change anything if you take a glock and shoulder it or take a rifle and shoot it with one hand not shouldered. In the most recent SIG brace letter the author writing the ATF clearly states he wants to get a SIG brace to shoulder as a stock which is illegal. In a previous letter a police agency asked about the legality of someone shouldering a SIG brace(which is legal as long as you don't intend to by pass the NFA). In the provisional rules it clearly states a sig brace is not allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowryWeaponsSystems Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) Now it all makes sence.. btw that picture is from a Guns America newsletter. Edited March 23, 2016 by LowryWeaponsSystems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) The ATF has ruled it is illegal to get an AR pistol and put a SIG brace on it to by pass the NFA laws. How a firearm is used doesn't change the legal status of a firearm. It doesn't change anything if you take a glock and shoulder it or take a rifle and shoot it with one hand not shouldered. In the most recent SIG brace letter the author writing the ATF clearly states he wants to get a SIG brace to shoulder as a stock which is illegal. In a previous letter a police agency asked about the legality of someone shouldering a SIG brace(which is legal as long as you don't intend to by pass the NFA). In the provisional rules it clearly states a sig brace is not allowed. Actually what the latest ruling says is if you shoulder the gun you commit a felony if you don't you aren't. So yes BATFE latest ruling does in essence say how you shoot a firearm chances it legal status. Sucks but that is what they said.You can cheek it all you want so long as you don't touch the shoulder but I don't want them in a match because people will shoulder them. Pat Edited March 23, 2016 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davsco Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Not saying that is or isn't the law, but if how you hold a firearm determines the legality, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowryWeaponsSystems Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Not saying that is or isn't the law, but if how you hold a firearm determines the legality, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Common sense is lacking in the atf world if you haven't already noticed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmob50 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Not saying that is or isn't the law, but if how you hold a firearm determines the legality, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Common sense is lacking in the atf world if you haven't already noticed True, it doesn't have to make sense, this IS the gov't we're talking about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Not saying that is or isn't the law, but if how you hold a firearm determines the legality, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Agreed its stupid but we are talking about BATFE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidb72 Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Is anyone running PCC in their USPSA matches yet?Can we legally do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillD Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 If you can find a MD to allow it. Seems the ones around me feel a little threatened... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidb72 Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 If you can find a MD to allow it. Seems the ones around me feel a little threatened... I'm the MD and I'm willing to allow it. I just don't want to do anything that's not ok with HQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Is anyone running PCC in their USPSA matches yet? Can we legally do so? our club ran pcc on saturday. several guys showed up for it. oddly, in a 9 stage match, we had zero uprange starts, zero SHO/WHO, and lots of 20 yard mini poppers and partials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastly Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 (edited) So, the match was set up at the MD's discretion, pretty much like all L1 matches? With the exception of the occasional Classifier (SHO/WHO, Uprange Starts) and not having as many tough shots it sounds like one our local matches. Was this a 9-stage LOCAL? If so, wow! Edited April 5, 2016 by Beastly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 9 stages and not a single uprange start, zero SHO/WHO & a lot of 20 yd mini poppers & partials? With an actual data point being provided here it looks like all the predictions of stage design being affected by PCC is actually starting to come true .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Is anyone running PCC in their USPSA matches yet? Can we legally do so? our club ran pcc on saturday. several guys showed up for it.oddly, in a 9 stage match, we had zero uprange starts, zero SHO/WHO, and lots of 20 yard mini poppers and partials. Is what you describe a normal or abnormal situation? Have there been other months that duplicated this match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 9 stages and not a single uprange start, zero SHO/WHO & a lot of 20 yd mini poppers & partials? With an actual data point being provided here it looks like all the predictions of stage design being affected by PCC is actually starting to come true .... or possibly i'm just stirring up shiznit, but the MD did shoot PCC. to be honest tho, this match was setup as 2 matches over 2 days, limited, open and pcc on saturday, L10, SS and prod on sunday, same exact stages. Many different volunteer stage designers, only a couple of whom shot PCC, so i would probably not use this is a data point for anything except getting people riled up online. fwiw tho, this is a really really fun match format, and a valuable learning experience too, to be able to shoot the same stages with different equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2MoreChains Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 ^Those who stir the pot should be required to lick the spoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 ^Those who stir the pot should be required to lick the spoon. I do that when I make chili. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2MoreChains Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Moto is also stirring the honeypot in addition to his chilli fixin's. 9 stages back-to-back Hi-cap / Lo-cap level 1 match is not normal for us, but something the club started doing last year and this was our second offering. 9 stages, low 200 rnd count. Day 1: match only recognizes the hi-cap divisions. Day 2: match only recognizes the lo-cap divisions. Idea is to bump up the competitive heat by attracting only those divisions on each day, plus what's not to like about 1 setup, 2 matches, 1 tear-down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpheus Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 opinions on bracing off the cheek with a sig brace?? Looks shoulder fired to me. Even if it wasnt touching the shoulder. The ATF has ruled that the SIG brace is legal if used as intended. Meaning stick your arm through brace and use it as intended. "Cheeking" an arm brace is not using it as intended. Pony up your $200 if you want a SBR. if he got a thordsencustoms and did that he would be perfectly fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntenseImage Posted April 5, 2016 Share Posted April 5, 2016 Was this a 9-stage LOCAL? If so, wow! Our local monthly is 300+ rds and usually 10-12 stages :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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