Pistol Caliber Carbine. (PCC)

[warpspeed]

47 pages - TLDR; what have I missed?

It sounds like fun. Perhaps an excuse to build another rifle. What's the downside ?

[andyroth]

47 pages - TLDR; what have I missed?

It sounds like fun. Perhaps an excuse to build another rifle. What's the downside ?

I'd say the downside right now is buying a PCC and then the provisional division would not be approved. I'm waiting until it's being shot in matches for a few months to buy mine.

[BillD]

The downside is folks that are afraid of long guns, I think.

[warpspeed]

The downside is folks that are afraid of long guns, I think.

Scary black rifles. i get that.

[d_striker]

I spoke with Bruce Wells (Area 6 Director) over the weekend at the SC State match. He said initially all of the feedback he received was positive but lately almost all has been negative. PCC doesn't appear to be a sure thing for USPSA matches.I'd highly suggest contacting your respective AD and share your thoughts prior to the BoD meeting tomorrow.

My guess is that the initial positive feedback was from all the PCC supporters trying to get it off the ground. Now that it's actually starting to gain visibility on more memebers' radar, they are starting to see a more realistic opinion sample.

Most members still don't know that PCC is a proposed provisional division.

[MikeRush]

I am by no means an early supporter of the division or concept- but it would seem to me that many of those providing "negative feedback" haven't tried it. It is easy to have an opinion of something without giving it a fair trial. I don't really see much along the lines of "we tried it, and it was awful".

I shot the Berry's Steel Open this last weekend (great match, by the way) and there were a number of shooters in PCC. It looked like a blast to shoot- the start positions were a non issue and the stages were still great (albeit challenging) pistol stages. There were challenges for the carbine shooters (tight shooting areas/barricades, hard weak side leans, etc) and places where the carbine looked like it would be an advantage.

High overall in each of the three segments (par time, TNS, and Steel Challenge) was claimed by an Open shooter over the PCCs.

After this last weekend I am planning on putting a PCC gun together this year. I don't own anything that fits into the division but it seems worth a try to me. If nothing else it would allow for cheaper/easier carbine practice on the steel I already own, and there are some local carbine matches (established pre PCC).

[JesseM]

48 pages so I haven't read them all but my two cents are there are 3 kinds of types of people that do USPSA/IDPA or any competetive shooting

1) People that are there to win.

2) People that have no place else to practice shooting while moving (self defense training and what-not)

3) People that want to have some fun.

PCC currently seems like it exists mainly for Group 3 with maybe some people in Group 2 and some of the hardcore people in Group 1 are getting butthurt because they take USPSA seriosuly. I personally see no problem with a division exisiting solely because it's fun as long as it can be done safely, and I know it can be done safely because 3-gun has been doing it for years.

The only issue is not every USPSA club is going to have a range setup to do it and that's fine.

The one quesiton I have is the rules say slings are allowed and you can carry a gun vertically or bagged. Does that mean you can carry a slung gun between stages?

[morpheus]

what it really boils down to is pistol shooters getting beat by carbines time wise and they dont really like that

[jrswanson1]

what it really boils down to is pistol shooters getting beat by carbines time wise and they don't really like that

This.

[2011BLDR]

what it really boils down to is pistol shooters getting beat by carbines time wise and they don't really like that

This.

Yes .. a PCC will suffer on relay close to the props tight shoots. But what it will allow on field courses will be a whole new level, I am talking things like;

• Adding 15 yards to the distance you would normally consider with a pistol for taking paper targets and steel on the move.
• Eliminating shooting positions by being able to combine arrays that might be 15-30+ yards farther than you would be comfortable with on a pistol

[Alaskapopo]

what it really boils down to is pistol shooters getting beat by carbines time wise and they don't really like that

This.

Yep right on the mark. Fragile egos.

[ZackJones]

48 pages so I haven't read them all but my two cents are there are 3 kinds of types of people that do USPSA/IDPA or any competetive shooting

1) People that are there to win.

2) People that have no place else to practice shooting while moving (self defense training and what-not)

3) People that want to have some fun.

4) PCC shooters that are there to win the PCC division.

[Beastly]

48 pages so I haven't read them all but my two cents are there are 3 kinds of types of people that do USPSA/IDPA or any competetive shooting

1) People that are there to win.

2) People that have no place else to practice shooting while moving (self defense training and what-not)

3) People that want to have some fun.

PCC currently seems like it exists mainly for Group 3 with maybe some people in Group 2 and some of the hardcore people in Group 1 are getting butthurt because they take USPSA seriosuly. I personally see no problem with a division exisiting solely because it's fun as long as it can be done safely, and I know it can be done safely because 3-gun has been doing it for years.

The only issue is not every USPSA club is going to have a range setup to do it and that's fine.

The one quesiton I have is the rules say slings are allowed and you can carry a gun vertically or bagged. Does that mean you can carry a slung gun between stages?

Curious: Why do you think that PCC shooters wouldn't be serious about winning or excelling in that division?

[motosapiens]

48 pages so I haven't read them all but my two cents are there are 3 kinds of types of people that do USPSA/IDPA or any competetive shooting

1) People that are there to win.

2) People that have no place else to practice shooting while moving (self defense training and what-not)

3) People that want to have some fun.

PCC currently seems like it exists mainly for Group 3 with maybe some people in Group 2 and some of the hardcore people in Group 1 are getting butthurt because they take USPSA seriosuly. I personally see no problem with a division exisiting solely because it's fun as long as it can be done safely, and I know it can be done safely because 3-gun has been doing it for years.

The only issue is not every USPSA club is going to have a range setup to do it and that's fine.

The one quesiton I have is the rules say slings are allowed and you can carry a gun vertically or bagged. Does that mean you can carry a slung gun between stages?

Curious: Why do you think that PCC shooters wouldn't be serious about winning or excelling in that division?

i think there will be only a handful of people shooting it more than a few times. I could be wrong, but it looks like a novelty to me.

[BillD]

I'd probably shoot it at least half the time.

[motosapiens]

I'd probably shoot it at least half the time.

when you actually do that for more than a few months, I'll admit I was wrong.

In the meantime, I don't really care. We had PCC in a recent match, only a handful of people shot it, they had fun, and it didn't seem to have any affect on the rest of us. Once it gets big enough to have a pcc-only match with stages that are optimized for PCC, I might get interested.

[jrswanson1]

I'd probably shoot it at least half the time.

when you actually do that for more than a few months, I'll admit I was wrong.

In the meantime, I don't really care. We had PCC in a recent match, only a handful of people shot it, they had fun, and it didn't seem to have any affect on the rest of us. Once it gets big enough to have a pcc-only match with stages that are optimized for PCC, I might get interested.

Not a lot of folks have a PCC, much less multiple PCCs. This makes me want my Sub2000 back. I'm not going to be using any of my current PCCs as I'd never find the brass, which isn't cheap to replace. I think a nice 9mm AR would work great for this, with a red dot.

[BillD]

Moto, why would I possibly care if you admit you are wrong or not?

I've seen many of your posts. It seems you have your faults but being wrong isn't one of them.

[motosapiens]

Moto, why would I possibly care if you admit you are wrong or not?

I've seen many of your posts. It seems you have your faults but being wrong isn't one of them.

lol, well of course no sane person thinks they are wrong. If I thought I was wrong, I would change my mind.

at any rate, I think this whole thing is a tempest in a teapot.

[Beastly]

A cancelled local USPSA match with 'optional' (not sure outlaw or USPSA multi-gun rules) short range rifle stages just resurrected.

I'll recon with my AR or maybe Sub2000, but I'd rather shoot it pistol + optional PCC stages under straight USPSA rules.

[PKT1106]

what it really boils down to is pistol shooters getting beat by carbines time wise and they dont really like that

Um...they're not shooting against each other. Or was this a troll post?

[IntenseImage]

what it really boils down to is pistol shooters getting beat by carbines time wise[emoji317] and they dont really like that

Um...they're not shooting against each other. Or was this a troll post?

Overall matters [emoji23]

[JesseM]

48 pages so I haven't read them all but my two cents are there are 3 kinds of types of people that do USPSA/IDPA or any competetive shooting

1) People that are there to win.

2) People that have no place else to practice shooting while moving (self defense training and what-not)

3) People that want to have some fun.

PCC currently seems like it exists mainly for Group 3 with maybe some people in Group 2 and some of the hardcore people in Group 1 are getting butthurt because they take USPSA seriosuly. I personally see no problem with a division exisiting solely because it's fun as long as it can be done safely, and I know it can be done safely because 3-gun has been doing it for years.

The only issue is not every USPSA club is going to have a range setup to do it and that's fine.

The one quesiton I have is the rules say slings are allowed and you can carry a gun vertically or bagged. Does that mean you can carry a slung gun between stages?

Curious: Why do you think that PCC shooters wouldn't be serious about winning or excelling in that division?

I honestly don't know; I just thought that at least at first it'd be people looking to have some giggles.

[Jmob50]

what it really boils down to is pistol shooters getting beat by carbines time wise[emoji317] and they dont really like that

Um...they're not shooting against each other. Or was this a troll post?

Overall matters [emoji23]

I think you're on to something unfortunately. HOA seems to be a big ego booster for some. When you think of Carry Optics being approved, why is PCC even a debate??

Jon

[Jmob50]

what it really boils down to is pistol shooters getting beat by carbines time wise[emoji317] and they dont really like that

Um...they're not shooting against each other. Or was this a troll post?

Overall matters [emoji23]

I think you're on to something unfortunately. HOA seems to be a big ego booster for some. When you think of Carry Optics being approved, why is PCC even a debate??

Jon