GunBugBit Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) I recently had a conversation with a fellow with extensive competition shooting experience (long distance rifle, pistol bullseye, archery), just not USPSA or Steel Challenge. He said things several times that indicated he believes fast action shooters are notorious trigger slappers. I am learning to shoot faster but I like to think I'm not a wild trigger slapper. I think the better shooters at my club have a lot of trigger discipline and solid technique. Maybe a few top guys have been video-recorded in the act of what most would agree is trigger slapping, but if you can truly shoot fast and accurate (the hits and the timer do not lie), is trigger slapping such a heinous crime? I'm wondering what the rest of you think about this image of USPSA shooters. Edited October 21, 2015 by GunBugBit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Trigger slapping is natural - it's mentioned in Genesis (The Bible). It's okay IFF you hold the gun Very Stable (No Movement) while you slap away. But, if you move the gun, slapping is Very Bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I would say we do slap the trigger. How I pull the trigger is dependent on the target I'm trying to hit. I will pull the trigger differently for a 3 yard open target then I do for a 40 yard mini popper. As I improve I can slap the trigger on more difficult shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amokscience Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 You answered your own question in your question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I shoot way more sports than I should and I do sometimes have trouble shifting gears, but yes, most USPSA shooters are trigger slappers. Depending on the person they might get away with it based on their speed, the matches they shoot etc. We have one USPSA match that is pretty technical with lots of no-shoots and another that rarely has much of anything but full open targets. You can see placement shifts among shooters with about equivalent skills sets overall, but one is a precision guy and the other a slapper. Mind you, I do not think the guys placing in the top of the USPSA matches are trigger slappers. They have to be well rounded marksmen with the ability to switch gears, call shots and know instantly what they can get away with for a given presentation. That is why they win. I do several things over the year that require great precision and patience and they are important to me, so I spend about 80% of my dry fire time maintaining my bolt gun trigger presses. If I do not, it can be worse than placing poorly at a match. When I ignore that for a while and try to focus on speed, my USPSA and 3Gun scores improve. However, I typically shoot more points than my competition at major matches, just slower, when I settle into the precision mode. What Chris Tilley said to me at a match one time is written on my one page list of things I review annually. I will set up what happened, then give you the quote. I had just shot poorly on a stage and while I had a good HF, I had dropped a lot of points. I was frustrated with the sloppy shooting and was determine to shoot "better" on the next stage. I shot all As. Chris said "Man, you were aiming your ass off". I took it as a compliment for about 15 minutes and then I said to Chris. "Aiming my ass off, that was not a compliment was it?" Chris said it was not. It was one of those pivotal moments for me as a pistol shooter though. In order to shoot pistols at high speed with precision takes a lot of work. Grip strength and eyesight are huge factors which get ignored by many of us at times and the scores suffer for it. The goal for me is knowing when it is okay to slap the trigger and when it is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 You answered your own question in your question. I hope the concept of a rhetorical question is not lost on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Leatham said he slaps the trigger. Good enough for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilkMyDuds Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Stoeger's DVD "Foundations" talked about trigger slapping. Top guys do slap trigger. My understanding is that you need to mitigate the slapping with solid grip such that your sight picture would still be acceptable at high speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) You need to learn how much you can abuse the trigger at different distances and target presentations. On open targets I can slap my 1911 trigger out to 10 yards and hold alphas. On my revolver, I need to start respecting the trigger more on targets beyond 5 yards or so. As targets get more difficult you need to be smoother on the trigger. Edited October 20, 2015 by PatJones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakemaul Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I'll second the other comments here... to an extent, you kinda have to. You're not going to put up good times if you're squeezing off each round like a bullseye or precision rifle shooter would. They have the luxury of time, and a nice slow squeeze makes it a lot easier to avoid moving the gun around. Jerking the trigger tends to move the gun, and thus throw off accuracy. But the bottom line is, you're just not going to get 10 rounds on target in 3 seconds with slow trigger pulls. 5 rounds in 6 seconds, sure... but at some point it becomes more or less inevitable. The trick is learning to jerk the trigger without moving the rest of the the gun. Rob Leatham has a nice video on this (speed vs accuracy): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLRxohRdIys. About 5m20s in, he specifically addresses jerking/slapping the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Grip and Rip it! Slap it and Map it! How else do you get doubles? Unfortunately, it was only 2 C's.... 10 rounds on target in 3 seconds, yea suck, .3 second splits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) I find this topic interesting, mostly because it seems irrelevant to my pistol shooting. I was just shooting groups at 25yds (rested and offhand) a week ago and I honestly could not discern a difference between a slow deliberate press and a fast finger twitch. If anything the twitch groups where slightly better offhand because I was just timing against my inability to hold the gun perfectly still rather than trying to hold on the bull and get a perfect squeeze. It probably works for me because my trigger breaks below 2lbs with almost zero take up. I've also NEVER thought about trigger control when trying to shoot fast, I actually feel like my eyes are the trigger. I see an acceptable sight picture and the gun goes off almost simultaneously. I think almost all of my misses are related to underestimating the required sight picture, not trigger pull. I'm sure this mindset will kill me if I ever try shooting revo! Edited October 20, 2015 by TonytheTiger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickBlasta Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Your grip should be solid enough to where it doesn't matter how you pull the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 People make up all sorts of reasons to shit on other people's hobbies. Sure, if you are an archer, bullseye-ist, or whatever, 0.2 splits are not a thing you care about or know how to make it happen. If you are trying to prove yours superiority you'll find any reason to do so without actually understanding what the hell you are talking about. Interestingly, I slap my pistol trigger at full speed, but I ride the trigger at full speed with a rifle. No idea why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 People make up all sorts of reasons to shit on other people's hobbies. Sure, if you are an archer, bullseye-ist, or whatever, 0.2 splits are not a thing you care about or know how to make it happen. If you are trying to prove yours superiority you'll find any reason to do so without actually understanding what the hell you are talking about. Interestingly, I slap my pistol trigger at full speed, but I ride the trigger at full speed with a rifle. No idea why. My guess would be the difference is in gripping the pistol, versus pulling the rifle stock into your shoulder -- different angles in the pulley chain mechanisms that make up the musculoskeletal system..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandbagger123 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Ask Travis T if he's a slapper or not. this vid shows it well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPs5L-lwCtc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 My guess would be the difference is in gripping the pistol, versus pulling the rifle stock into your shoulder -- different angles in the pulley chain mechanisms that make up the musculoskeletal system..... Thats certainly possible, also the different triggers, different weights, different recoil impulse .. I'm sure everything comes into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 if you can slap the trigger at .15 splits without disturbing the sights, who cares? i practice slapping the trigger in dryfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 ^ Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Proudly own the trigger slappage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) People make up all sorts of reasons to shit on other people's hobbies. I think you hit on the root of the fellow's comments. Edited October 20, 2015 by GunBugBit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Your grip should be solid enough to where it doesn't matter how you pull the trigger. That is very close to what I said to the gentleman during our conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 which bad habit don't I have? when I am doing precision rifle, trigger slap is not the problem. when I am running a pistol for speed.... I can't tell you if I am slapping a trigger or yanking or heeling. I am trying darned hard to keep the sights aligned. once I am not shooting I am trying to learn to get my finger off the trigger. I do not care if some one says I am not using 'rifle trigger rules' they are not a big help. when I am practicing aim and shot calling at a slow pace.... I am not slapping the trigger.... given all I have seen in my trigger work I'd like to have my trigger finger loose enough to actually slap the trigger. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_Vmax Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I wish I was fast enough to worry about slapping the trigger, maybe someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I slap with better results shooting a 2011 with a nice trigger than I do with my XDM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now