The "I can't be competitive ... " Fallacy

[PatJones]

Why do so many people feel the need to use the fallacy of being competitive ...

Why do so many people care what other people shoot?

Perhaps that is the real question.

Because they prefer to fool with gear instead of practicing.

[zhunter]

By the premise of the OP, everyone would drive a beat up old car as long as it was reliable. It will get you to your destination at the same time as the Mercedes/BMW Etc...

Let's face it, it's about the ride, pride of ownership, enjoying one's toys.....

I'd say let it go! Why worry about other people, go dry fire

[MikeRush]

Why do so many people feel the need to use the fallacy of being competitive ...

Why do so many people care what other people shoot?

Perhaps that is the real question.

Because they prefer to fool with gear instead of practicing.

I must be missing something. How does this affect you?

I'm with the blue guy. Dry fire, train, move up, crush matches... repeat.

How many people suck at driving and drive nice cars? Complaining about what other people do with their money, is, well, kind of silly in my opinion.

[P.E. Kelley]

Being competitive can be relative to where you are now vs. others in your class/division.

Or, it can be vying for the match overall within your division.

Most often the difference is how much time you have in the game and how hard you are working to improve.

Gear comes and goes. Most skills can be continually improved...provided one puts in the effort required.

[Shadyscott999]

HOA is the ONLY thing that matters.

[MarkCO]

HOA is the ONLY thing that matters.

So if you don't get HOA, what then. That kind of failure is rampant in the shooting sports.

[jkrispies]

All joking aside, I understand both comments in that I think divisions are silly. (Look, mom, I just won a trophy for high D!) Having said that, I often wonder how many GM's are out there who have never won HOA in a match. This is why we need to compete for intrinsic rather than extrinsic rewards.

[Shadyscott999]

HOA is the ONLY thing that matters.

So if you don't get HOA, what then. That kind of failure is rampant in the shooting sports.

I get mad, then I get motivated and I put in more work.

[Southpaw]

HOA is the ONLY thing that matters.

So if you don't get HOA, what then. That kind of failure is rampant in the shooting sports.

[cnote]

Being competitive can be relative to where you are now vs. others in your class/division.

Or, it can be vying for the match overall within your division.

Most often the difference is how much time you have in the game and how hard you are working to improve.

Gear comes and goes. Most skills can be continually improved...provided one puts in the effort required.

+1

Thanks for commenting ...Spoken by someone who has actually done the work

[motosapiens]

HOA is the ONLY thing that matters.

Maybe it's the only thing that matters to YOU, but I would say except for 5-6 people in the world, the only time you'll ever get HOA is because no one good showed up. Seems pretty shallow to have the only thing that matters be something that depends almost entirely on other people.

To me, the only thing that matters is getting better. I'll never be HOA at an area or national match, but I can be a higher percentage of the winner than I was before, and a higher percentile in the HOA, and that depends almost entirely on me (if you're good at statistics).

[RangerTrace]

HOA is the ONLY thing that matters.

Maybe it's the only thing that matters to YOU, but I would say except for 5-6 people in the world, the only time you'll ever get HOA is because no one good showed up. Seems pretty shallow to have the only thing that matters be something that depends almost entirely on other people.

To me, the only thing that matters is getting better. I'll never be HOA at an area or national match, but I can be a higher percentage of the winner than I was before, and a higher percentile in the HOA, and that depends almost entirely on me (if you're good at statistics).

Agreed.

[Shadyscott999]

HOA is the ONLY thing that matters.

Maybe it's the only thing that matters to YOU, but I would say except for 5-6 people in the world, the only time you'll ever get HOA is because no one good showed up. Seems pretty shallow to have the only thing that matters be something that depends almost entirely on other people.

To me, the only thing that matters is getting better. I'll never be HOA at an area or national match, but I can be a higher percentage of the winner than I was before, and a higher percentile in the HOA, and that depends almost entirely on me (if you're good at statistics).

I was only stating what matters to me. I have only been HOA at one major. That is what drives me to get better. IMO, it is short sighted to to think "the only time you'll ever get HOA is because no one good showed up". I prefer to think of it as I will only get HOA if I put in more work than those other guys.

[gng4life]

HOA is the ONLY thing that matters.

Maybe it's the only thing that matters to YOU, but I would say except for 5-6 people in the world, the only time you'll ever get HOA is because no one good showed up. Seems pretty shallow to have the only thing that matters be something that depends almost entirely on other people.

To me, the only thing that matters is getting better. I'll never be HOA at an area or national match, but I can be a higher percentage of the winner than I was before, and a higher percentile in the HOA, and that depends almost entirely on me (if you're good at statistics).

I was only stating what matters to me. I have only been HOA at one major. That is what drives me to get better. IMO, it is short sighted to to think "the only time you'll ever get HOA is because no one good showed up". I prefer to think of it as I will only get HOA if I put in more work than those other guys.

Shady, I have to agree with you here. I know several other guys who are the same way and most of them are really good, like you. I would say whatever it is that motivates you, then that is what is most important. Lets face it, without motivation, a shooter tends to be just average barring any physical limitations and they start getting into the "I can't be competitive" mindset. I think you are spot on!

[motosapiens]

I was only stating what matters to me. I have only been HOA at one major. That is what drives me to get better. IMO, it is short sighted to to think "the only time you'll ever get HOA is because no one good showed up". I prefer to think of it as I will only get HOA if I put in more work than those other guys.

That makes sense if you are only talking about what matters to *you* (I didn't get that out of your earlier post, my bad), and you make a good point. If you are young enough and motivated enough that it is feasible to become one of those elite shooters like Grauffel or Nils or Max, then it is quite plausible you could get HOA even if all the good guys show up. Good luck with your quest.

I have a slightly different outlook in that I think if I just keep getting better, the results will take care of themselves, but the better you get, the more it probably becomes about maximizing your performance at the right time and beating the other guys who all have pretty similar skills.

Edited June 4, 2015 by motosapiens

[Onepocket]

Whats HOA?

Edited June 4, 2015 by Onepocket

[Onepocket]

Whats HOA?

[RussellM]

HOA is the ONLY thing that matters.

I gotta agree. This is what motivates me to get up at 5am almost everyday and dryfire or drive to the range and shoot. I also want to see just how good I can get, that is the other motivator for me.

[Youngeyes]

Home owners association. Kidding. High over all

[Onepocket]

Now that I know what HOA stands for,I have to agree.

[jkrispies]

I still stand by my statement that we should compete for intrinsic purposes (see John Wooden's comments around about the 2:15 to 2:50 mark:

), but...

I do believe that it is important to have personal goals with measurable marks to achieve, and it can be a bit difficult not to compare yourself to others when engrossed in a competitive environment, and especially when the pursuit is in an individualized (vs. team) sport such as hours. To that end, I think HOA is a fine goal... if you're an Open shooter. For me, a healthier goal is to strive to be High in my division. For example, at my most recent monthly match, an active and very kick ass GM came in 8th overall (of 85 competing) while shooting Production, "losing" to a legendary GM shooting both Open and Limited, along with several others shooting Open, including a Master. He also beat no less than three Masters shooting Open.

By saying that "only HOA matters," you're diminishing some pretty amazing accomplishments that do matter. For me, I need to celebrate my small accomplishments as well as the accomplishments of those around me as examples of what I can (or might) do. If others motivate themselves by through a "best or nothing" outlook, then good for you guys and I'm not going to down you for it, but that's not how I'd want to operate.

EDIT TO ADD: ShadyScott and others, I'm not meaning to disrespect or discount anybody else's mindset here-- you guys are far more accomplished than me and I'm honored to pick your brains. Just expressing what works for me and, I think, others as well.

Edited June 5, 2015 by jkrispies

[Southpaw]

So I'm guessing all you "HOA or bust" guys are Open shooters?

Everyone has their own motivations and compete for different reasons. To me, HOA at a major isn't even something I've ever thought about or considered. Heck given who shows up to my local matches I'll never be HOA there either! I would say HOA isn't even something I really want because I know the amount of dedication it would take to get there and I have neither the time nor the drive for that. I think I'd actually enjoy the sport less if I got so worked up about attaining HOA at every match and put in that amount of time practicing and dry firing. I would like to reach GM (and I don't just mean a classifier GM), but have no interest at least right now in putting that amount of pressure on myself to be an HOA contender at every major I attend.

So does that mean I should be shooting a Hi Point? I personally don't care what guns others shoot or why they choose to use them. I know I enjoy shooting more when I shoot well, so if a different gun will allow me to shoot better I think that's a sufficient enough reason for someone to get a better or more expensive gun if that's what he or she wants to do.

And when I say I don't care about being HOA I'm not saying I'm just a casual shooter who doesn't care much about my performance and being competitive. I just have a different view on how I want to be competitive and what success means to me. I care more about constantly improving my shooting and I get very competitive when I'm shooting matches with friends who are around or an attainable amount above my skill level.

[Neomet]

Being competitive often has nothing to do with the chances of winning HOA or even 1st in division or class. Now those goals may apply to people with the skill sets to attain them, but for the rest of us slugs we have other goals, be it to beat the guys/gals that are normally a couple points ahead of us, to shoot X percentage of the winner's score, to shoot a clean match, or some other measure that matters only to that individual. It is these goals that we focus our competitive drive on. I think some top shooters have a hard time relating to this.

I'm a mediocre A/B competitor shooting in the land of USPSA gods. If I finish midpack it is a good day. My wife is a mid C class shooter. We show up for 1 or 2 matches a week We buy damned good gear so that we can shoot the best matches we can. I will say that every time we are rolling up to the range we still feel that competitive rush. The day I don't I will find something else to do.

[zhunter]

HOA? Never gonna happen for me.

I base my local match performance comparing my results to certain other shooters. When I go to a major match with multiple GM's I set a goal of a certain percentage for the match.

In classifiers, currently I'm trying to shoot Master or higher scores.

We are all different, I find it amusing that some think that HOA is the only thing that should matter for everyone.

Goals that are unattainable are just stupid, and realistically not really goals.

[Onepocket]

You can have more than one goal at a time. For me HOA is just one of many during a match, maybe the icing on the cake. Being first in limited is my primary goal. With my wacko way of thinking in life I will never understand the USPSA rating system. First B?? Second D ect. Why can't it be your in 24th place, 7th place ect. For those that say HOA is unattainable for them are setting a goal also.