Major Match RO etiquette in not pasting missed targets

[Chris iliff]

I've done both, yelled for PASTERS and just handled it myself. I've CRO'd and RO'd some big matches and I think I'm going to take CHA-LEE's advice, I'm gonna carry some pasters.

It just makes sense.

Am I gonna paste and reset? Hell no I'm not, but thinking about CHA-LEE's rant, why can't I paste the occasional target quickly to keep the match moving. I can then comment quickly to the squad about pasting and resetting. I've found this is usually enough.

Although there was one squad years ago..........

[copecowboy22]

When I shot Space City last November we could "rent" a Boy Scout for $40 each I think. My squad got 3. They were older and knew what was going on. It was nice, we just pitched in to keep things moving.

[toothandnail]

Pay extra for resetters ? HOW much?

Most times I hear "I'd pay an extra $5-10.00 entry fee to not reset. Lets see how that works out

Say $10.00 extra per shooter - 200 in the match - 10 stage match

You'd need at least 4 per stage even then it would be slow resetting

so 40 guys resetting, 2 days, say 15 hours total time = 600 man hours

$10.00 x 200 = $2000.00

$2K / 600 = $3.33 per hour worked.

Even a $20 extra entry fee the resetters are getting the shaft. you'll get the quality job your paying for.

[MarkCO]

The baseball team, 10 of them earned over $2000 in 2 days, and we charge $175 for a 2 day 10 stage match. Did not affect match expenses in anyway except an extra set of mouths to feed. I told the coach, if they don't work, they won't get tips. If they bust their butts, they will do well.

Edited March 13, 2015 by MarkCO

[toothandnail]

The baseball team, 10 of them earned over $2000 in 2 days, and we charge $175 for a 2 day 10 stage match. Did not affect match expenses in anyway except an extra set of mouths to feed. I told the coach, if they don't work, they won't get tips. If they bust their butts, they will do well.

So 10 guys did ALL the resetting for a 2 day 10 stage match ? ? 1 guy per stage, he must have been a hustler.

If they were volunteer helpers, just getting tips, that's a whole other thing, doesn't give any shooter a break from resetting.

I seen the volunteer thing work pretty good, and also, flop horribly. But that's not what guys on this thread wanting to pay extra, are wanting.

Edited March 13, 2015 by toothandnail

[motosapiens]

I don't carry pasters.....why? Because I'm not shooting. The people shooting paste and reset steel. Also paint the steel.

Question, if you carry pasters, do you paint or reset steel also? Or a drop Turner or clam shell?

At the major matches I've worked, the RO's typically reset the movers and anything else that might be tricky, just to prevent reshoots. FWIW, we usually have 3 RO's on a long course, 1 for timer, 1 for score, and 1 spare. The spare guy clears the stage and resets movers and makes sure everything is getting done.

I personally don't mind helping paste and reset. I'm out there anyway, it makes the time go faster.

I like the idea of renting boyscouts or athletic teams tho. 3 birds with one stone. shooters can focus more on shooting, team gets money and kids get exposure to shooting as a safe, fun and healthy activity.

Edited March 13, 2015 by motosapiens

[MarkCO]

The baseball team, 10 of them earned over $2000 in 2 days, and we charge $175 for a 2 day 10 stage match. Did not affect match expenses in anyway except an extra set of mouths to feed. I told the coach, if they don't work, they won't get tips. If they bust their butts, they will do well.

So 10 guys did ALL the resetting for a 2 day 10 stage match ? ? 1 guy per stage, he must have been a hustler.

If they were volunteer helpers, just getting tips, that's a whole other thing, doesn't give any shooter a break from resetting.

I seen the volunteer thing work pretty good, and also, flop horribly. But that's not what guys on this thread wanting to pay extra, are wanting.

On most of the stages, there was also a parent with them. And no, they did not do all of the resetting, and some of the kids were better than others. The shooters said they worked their butts off and appreciated the help immensely. The only match I am aware of that the shooters do not work at all is FNH. They run 4-7 staff per stage and the shooters just shoot. One of the better group of staff I have ever worked with too.

[JayWord]

I don't carry pasters.....why? Because I'm not shooting. The people shooting paste and reset steel. Also paint the steel.

Question, if you carry pasters, do you paint or reset steel also? Or a drop Turner or clam shell?

At the major matches I've worked, the RO's typically reset the movers and anything else that might be tricky, just to prevent reshoots. FWIW, we usually have 3 RO's on a long course, 1 for timer, 1 for score, and 1 spare. The spare guy clears the stage and resets movers and makes sure everything is getting done.

I personally don't mind helping paste and reset. I'm out there anyway, it makes the time go faster.

I like the idea of renting boyscouts or athletic teams tho. 3 birds with one stone. shooters can focus more on shooting, team gets money and kids get exposure to shooting as a safe, fun and healthy activity.

Anybody who has worked with me on a stage know I carry a paster gun in my back pocket and if I see an untaped target I will handle. I will occasionally will paint steel if it gets missed. If I'm running the timer my last duty is to check to make sure the stage is set. I also encourage my ROs to carry a few white pasters for the no-shoots. I also taped white pasters on the back of the targets sticks, but occasionally they run out.

As far as using Boy Scouts, etc. I worked the Florida Open with church people and we had issues with lack of concentration with the non-shooters. Kids have a hard time keeping their heads in the game for a long day or days on a stage. It is getting worse as the instant gratification crowd gets worse. IMHO.

Jay

[rowdyb]

i dont have much major uspsa match experience but i did just run into the type of RO originally mentioned. and the squad i was on reacted poorly to it. he stood there by two targets that weren't taped and nearby steel not painted. just quietly standing there, waiting.

i was the on deck shooter but finally got pissed at the rest of my squad and ran down there and did it. i was un happy. as i came back I yelled and cursed at the rest of the squad saying, " as the on deck shooter i shouldn't be down there taping and setting targets!! quit being lazy xcursewordx and do it!"

now in the other sport, what i've seen is SO's who say things like, "you'll get a procedural if you aren't helping tape and set." that bugs me as well. i have shot a few matches where there were paid resetters and tapers. was odd feeling, but nice.

[Nik Habicht]

I'm mostly with Cha-Lee on this one -- not on the annoyance part, but on the "carry some posters and simply handle the occasional missed target" like a professional....

If that'll get the stage to turn over faster, that's more time the ROs can spend resting before the next squad shows up....

[Poppa Bear]

I have pasted more than a few as I walk through the stage checking targets on my way back to the on start area. It is usually a missed paster or one falling off. Sometimes it is a target that got shot 3 times and the paster expects 2 holes so they grab the 2 and miss the 3rd. Things happen and I am not going to get all bent out of shape just because a hole or target was missed. I am fortunate in that most squads I shoot with have people fanning out throughout the stage so that any one person might have to paste 2 or 3 targets. Many of them are also good about announcing when they are out of pasters and how many holes are left to cover.

[whitedog]

After reading this thread and speaking to some people wiser and smarter then me, which is a large group by the way. I'll start carrying pasters when I ro. I see the valid points now.

As usual the benoverse has opened my eyes to things in a different way, thanks guys.

[motosapiens]

Note that there's a difference between a squad of shooters that inadvertently misses a target, vs a squad of shooters that is not really taping and leaving only 1 or 2 guys to do all the work and missing a lot of stuff. I just try to keep the stage moving, and keep the shooters shooting and resetting, without being a dick about it. I find that *most* of the time if a squad isn't resetting it's not intentional laziness, it's just a bunch of things all at once, 2 guys shooting low-cap divisions that have to clean all their mags, 1 guy with a broken gun he needs to fix, one guy has to go to the bathroom and 2 other guys in a conversation with someone they haven't seen in a year that let their attention wander. All of the sudden there's only 1 guy taping and it's time for a gentle reminder, and maybe to pitch in to keep things moving.

[Sarge]

After reading this thread and speaking to some people wiser and smarter then me, which is a large group by the way. I'll start carrying pasters when I ro. I see the valid points now.

As usual the benoverse has opened my eyes to things in a different way, thanks guys.

You have been assimilated.......

Not me. I refuse. I have found that once a squad knows I am not going to wipe their butts for them somebody tends to stay downrange near me for when I find missed tape.

[redial]

I no longer shoot major matches. I do this for fun.

Mark

[Nimitz]

last time I shot Area 6 there was one stage where the ROs announced that they would be doing everything and to please stay off the CoF ... took us a couple of shooters before everyone stopped going out onto the course to paste ... not sure what prompted them to do that but it was a nice break for the shooters ...

[whitedog]

Sarge.....me assimilated? No. However I do see the valid points to sometimes paste. I'm definitely not saying it's going to be a habit. And if I have to keep doing it they go back in the box.

But I don't see the point in making someone from way up range on a long course come and do it if I'm right there. Just not logical.

Of course, as with everything, circumstances dictate action.

[Rangerdug]

The baseball team, 10 of them earned over $2000 in 2 days, and we charge $175 for a 2 day 10 stage match. Did not affect match expenses in anyway except an extra set of mouths to feed. I told the coach, if they don't work, they won't get tips. If they bust their butts, they will do well.

I had to agree with Mark, they worked their butts off and they did a good job... and always appreciate Kids showing a little initiative to raise funds.

[cody6477]

I usually have a few pasters, and I don't hesitate to take care of an isolated missed target. That's a different thing from a squad that isn't taking care of business, and then I'll remind folks about what needs to be done. I haven't seen much of that, but occasionally some prompting is required.

[mont1120]

To be honest, from a shooters perspective, I "think" I know where the RO who refused to paste is coming from. I am not an RO, just a C class shooter, and have shot a lot of matches where certain shooters feel it is beneath their dignity to paste and paint, and that by far is the worst part. I can understand how a seasoned RO gets real tired watching arrogant shooters yap away on how good they are, or how pretty their gun is, while the "commoners" try and keep the match flowing.

No, I am not a GM, but I paid the same price others did, and part of the game is to participate in the set up and continued operation of the match. No RO is there for the amusement of the elite. (I am not referring to the great shooters here, just the ones who feel above the rest, I shot with a GM shooter at Nationals who was the first down the line to help). The RO's are not paid to sit in the blazing sun, rain, freezing cold, and bug infestations to not at least get the help on the stage to move forth.

So, if a mistake is made, hopefully the RO doesn't mind taping a target we shooters walked by, but I think in the majority of cases, the RO is sick and tired of not getting the effort equal to what they are putting in, I know there are times it would be fun to watch an RO assign a penalty to lazy arrogant shooters who are above it all.

[jhgtyre]

To be honest, from a shooters perspective, I "think" I know where the RO who refused to paste is coming from. I am not an RO, just a C class shooter, and have shot a lot of matches where certain shooters feel it is beneath their dignity to paste and paint, and that by far is the worst part. I can understand how a seasoned RO gets real tired watching arrogant shooters yap away on how good they are, or how pretty their gun is, while the "commoners" try and keep the match flowing.

No, I am not a GM, but I paid the same price others did, and part of the game is to participate in the set up and continued operation of the match. No RO is there for the amusement of the elite. (I am not referring to the great shooters here, just the ones who feel above the rest, I shot with a GM shooter at Nationals who was the first down the line to help). The RO's are not paid to sit in the blazing sun, rain, freezing cold, and bug infestations to not at least get the help on the stage to move forth.

So, if a mistake is made, hopefully the RO doesn't mind taping a target we shooters walked by, but I think in the majority of cases, the RO is sick and tired of not getting the effort equal to what they are putting in, I know there are times it would be fun to watch an RO assign a penalty to lazy arrogant shooters who are above it all.

I couldn't agree more on all points made, especially the comment regarding penalizing shooters that don't help.

ld

[incorrigible]

My team mates and I (Team Infidel) bring our own tape guns to bigger matches. Never an issue with us and taping. We're done before the RO gets back to the shooting box.

I like the idea of having some pasters (including black and white for no-shoots and hard cover) when ROing a stage. One more little extra to keep things moving. I hate lazy squads.

[laz2011]

To be honest, from a shooters perspective, I "think" I know where the RO who refused to paste is coming from. I am not an RO, just a C class shooter, and have shot a lot of matches where certain shooters feel it is beneath their dignity to paste and paint, and that by far is the worst part. I can understand how a seasoned RO gets real tired watching arrogant shooters yap away on how good they are, or how pretty their gun is, while the "commoners" try and keep the match flowing.

No, I am not a GM, but I paid the same price others did, and part of the game is to participate in the set up and continued operation of the match. No RO is there for the amusement of the elite. (I am not referring to the great shooters here, just the ones who feel above the rest, I shot with a GM shooter at Nationals who was the first down the line to help). The RO's are not paid to sit in the blazing sun, rain, freezing cold, and bug infestations to not at least get the help on the stage to move forth.

So, if a mistake is made, hopefully the RO doesn't mind taping a target we shooters walked by, but I think in the majority of cases, the RO is sick and tired of not getting the effort equal to what they are putting in, I know there are times it would be fun to watch an RO assign a penalty to lazy arrogant shooters who are above it all.

The RO's are not paid. Edited January 12, 2016 by laz2011

[bradsteimel]

I agree. I think the RO should be there to help expedite then match and paste a target occasionally. BUT they shouldn't have to be responsible for much more than that.

I shot the FL State match last weekend and one RO specifically, after calling out the hits, was the last to return to the start box because he personally set/inspected the activator. He didn't paint it or paste the target, but wanted to make sure it was set properly to avoid a reshoot.

I was very appreciative of his help!!!